Sam,

We could disagree and that is acceptable. I would like to respectfully present my evidence against Jesus' divinity:

Deuteronomy 4:15-19 -

15 ¶ Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire;

16 lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

17 the likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air,

18 the likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:

19 and lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

kay, guys? the whole point of this passage is that Jesus didn't come to earth to bring eternal relaxation on an island in the caribean(excuse the spelling). He is saying that he came for our utter devotion, and rightly so, for he is the one that died to keep us out of eternal (*)(*)(*)(*)ation. If you think following him everywhere he goes, or says to go, or becoming more devoted to him than your mother or father, than you miss the entire point of the passage. Read a little more about the subject, if you would like, at biblegateway.com.
My job is not to cast judgement on other's beliefs.

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I'm moving to Canada

Mr-Soviet

The result of this discussion:

Jesus' own actions VERSUS Jesus' followers actions.

Jesus is the only one to destroy anyone NOT his followers.

Therefore, the real subject of this whole thread is whether or NOT it is allowed for Christians to be Crusader-like???

The Crusades were wrong. Therefore, a Christian would be disobeying the exact words of Jesus by fighting in wars.

Not a literal "sword", but the sword of Truth.

What, pray tell, do you suppose he meant when he said: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth?
How is he using the word "peace" metaphorically?
I'm afraid the "sword as 'truth' explanation is just spin.

Sword is of 'truth' - as in 'the word'....but those fixated to a sick degree on 'Christ as Agent of Cosmic Punishment' are coming at these issues from a most particular mindset...

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"A man's work is nothing but this slow trek to rediscover, through the detours of art, those two or three great and simple images in whose presence his heart first opened."

Sword...Word: Sorry. You need to bolster your interpretation that the use of the word "sword" is figurative not simply repeat your position. A plain reading to these passages do not support your belief. I think that you, like many traditional Christians of this age, have been taught that Jesus consistently taught passivity. In fact, no one really knows what the man taught. We have ancient texts all written well after his death by folks who never met him. Some of those contradictory oral traditions have survived in the canonical texts and some have been long eliminated. He may have been a pasifist but some historians think he may have been a Zealot.

or, indeed, any other brand of Christian. But most theologians over the past 2,000 years would have considered the interpretation I have given as the agreed, accepted meaning. They have studied these issues in some depth, cloistered away for millenia, you understand. Though there are increasing numbers of straight-jacketed literalists around - you will know them by their serpents, and a flow of exquisite gibberish streaming from them ('speaking in tongues').

If you want to discuss whether this is their interpretation of Jesus' words, or their interpretation of the author's words - whack away, its a valid distinction to make, in my opinion.

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"A man's work is nothing but this slow trek to rediscover, through the detours of art, those two or three great and simple images in whose presence his heart first opened."

Yeah the sword stood for "truth", the idea being that the Christians acting by the truth would gain spite and problems from the other people in their community, just like a modern cult. He simply meant that life would not be easy (thus peaceful) and would not remain the same. The breaking of the peace would not necessarily be war but a fracture in the social system. Whatever the reaction of the others, Christians were not told at any point to go around killing "heathens". Rather the fear was that others might do harm to them. Thus Crusaders of the past who used this phrase as an excuse to incite violence had no real leg to stand on. But note how the holy books always seem to have justification for tyrants when they need it. We can'tr blame Jesus for that.

Hey, you guys do a great job of twisting the 'Word' idea into a bad thing, but in reality, the jews were ordered many times to kill people, from moses and the passover, to King David and the Philistines. Not only were followers of God ordered to kill people, but sometimes they were ordered to kill races. However, since the coming of Christ, man has been ordered to love your enemy more than itself. The ten commandments, the levitite rituals, and all the religious rituals were simplified down to two key rules. First of all, "Love your Lord our God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strangth". Secondly, "Love your neighbor as yourself". These are the rules of Christianity, and all sin contradicts them. If you sin, however, you can offer your life to God and ask for forgiveness. This is the system of forgiveness that centers our relation/salvation by Jesus.

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I'm moving to Canada

Mr-Soviet