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Old 10-26-2005, 11:49 AM
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Yes but how often have Christians actually abided by those rules? Who was it that said 'I believe in Christ not Christianity'?
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Old 10-26-2005, 01:56 PM
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Matthew, 10:
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Not a literal "sword", but the sword of Truth.
What, pray tell, do you suppose he meant when he said: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth?
How is he using the word "peace" metaphorically?
I'm afraid the "sword as 'truth' explanation is just spin.
Sword is of 'truth' - as in 'the word'....but those fixated to a sick degree on 'Christ as Agent of Cosmic Punishment' are coming at these issues from a most particular mindset...
Sword...Word: Sorry. You need to bolster your interpretation that the use of the word "sword" is figurative not simply repeat your position. A plain reading to these passages do not support your belief. I think that you, like many traditional Christians of this age, have been taught that Jesus consistently taught passivity. In fact, no one really knows what the man taught. We have ancient texts all written well after his death by folks who never met him. Some of those contradictory oral traditions have survived in the canonical texts and some have been long eliminated. He may have been a pasifist but some historians think he may have been a Zealot.
In the particular example above (Mat 10:34) where Jesus used the word “sword,” maybe it is in the same sense that “sword” is used in Rev 1:16, “And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.” In the final battle between Good and Evil (i.e., the Battle of Armageddon), some Christians believe that when Jesus arrives at the battle, He will simply speak, defeating Satan and ending the battle. In the sense of spiritual matters, the Word of God is a weapon that is as deadly to Satan as a sword in the physical world is to a human being.

So, maybe Jesus was speaking both metaphorically (in relation to the physical world) and literally (in relation to the spiritual world). If the problems in Life are truly due to powers that only wish Humanity harm [For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Eph 6:12)], then using the Word of God is the only way to defeat the powers responsible for these problems [And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:...(Eph 6:17)]. I believe that Jesus may have been trying to tell us how to improve our lives by using the Word of God to crush powers in the spiritual realm that constantly work to make our lives miserable.

I also agree with Mr-Soviet, who said that these passages mean Jesus wants our complete devotion. Every person, or thing for that matter, in any Christian’s life should be secondary to the desire of seeking God’s Will through Jesus.
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Old 10-26-2005, 08:19 PM
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Yes but how often have Christians actually abided by those rules? Who was it that said 'I believe in Christ not Christianity'?
Gandhi said "I like your Christ but I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike Christ."
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Old 10-27-2005, 07:35 AM
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Yes but how often have Christians actually abided by those rules? Who was it that said 'I believe in Christ not Christianity'?
Gandhi said "I like your Christ but I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike Christ."
There is a great book by Dave Burchett called, “When Bad Christians Happen to Good People.” Burchett is really witty and whether you’re a Christian, or not, the book is worthwhile reading.

As a Buyer, I would like to say one thing in defense of Christians, which is I would much rather do business with a company that is owned and operated by a Christian than one that is not. Generally speaking, my own business experience has shown that Christians are more honest about their dealings, more willing to stand behind their products/services without hiding behind legalese laden contracts and provide better customer service. On the other hand, I am finding increasingly that companies owned and operated by non-Christians could care less about their customers, have no qualms about selling junk and at the end of the day are only concerned about how much money they are making.
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:11 PM
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Before touting your ignorance, read the ENTIRE Bible COVER TO COVER instead of lazily reading a few passages that fit your worldview. After that, you will never be able to offer one example of Jesus contradicting Himself. I could try to explain Matthew 10:34-39 to you, but doing so would be like casting pearls before swine (Matthew 7:6).
Why ever do you think that Jesus said any of the things attributed to him? The synoptic gospels were written well after the man's death and sprang from a variety of followers. Some thought him a wise man, some a holy man and some a god. You seem to have a very clear idea of who Jesus was and what he said with nothing more than faith in your particular interpretation to offer as evidence.
Interesting thread, and it should interest you to know that reading the whole Bible (which version?) results in more scripture that contradicts other scripture. Jesus contradicts himself, and not all of what's quoted as said by Jesus was really said by Jesus--in Luke's case, it's just the hearsay he reported of people who basically played Telephone with what they thought Jesus said--and Luke was Paul's doctor, and Paul had no clue as to what Jesus said outside that expanse between his ears.
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:14 PM
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Those who believe that The Bible is the Inerrant Word Of God literally believe the following scripture literally:

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When you are assemled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the Day of the Lord
1 Corinthians 5:5 Satan performing good works is an oddity, no?
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...Some have shipwrecked their faith. Among tem are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
1 Timothy 1:20 Another odd job Paul found for Satan. The man is clearly a Satanist, and this is the Inerrant Word of God to be belived literally by literalists.
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