Thread: Why do Homosexuality`ve always been accepted by the Muslim civilization more then...

Why do Homosexuality and Pederasty have always been accepted by the Muslim civilization more then the Cristian one?

Albania

S'gjen ndonji zok qi kendon,
Te gjithe jane e po qajne.
I mjeri ashik sa fort po duron,
Prej dyllberit po e dajne.

Dilli, qi len ne mengjes
Si ti, o djal, kur me zallandise
Kur me kthen syt' e zes'
Shpirt ment prej kres' mi gremise. You'll find no bird that sings,
They all just sit and cry.
The poor lover, how strongly he endures,
[For] they separate him from his beloved. The sun, when it rises in the morning,
Is like you, boy, when you are near me.
When your dark eye turns upon me,
It drives my reason from my head.

— Neçín of Përmet, son of Ali Pasha Frakulli, mid 19th century; translation by Nicholas Zymaris

But I am not merely relying on books. There are parishes both here and abroad which have never stopped doing adelphopoeia, and know exactly what it is for, particularly in Albania. Now, John Boswell knew many languages, but not Albanian, but even he found some references in translation to what went on there. I know Albanian, and interviewed Albanian Orthodox in 1991, when the churches were just reopening after decades of communist oppression. In the same year, there were rites of vellameria (the Albanian name for the rite) performed in the Orthodox church in Elbasan. All Albanians I spoke to (not Albanian Americans, I might add, who do not seem to generally be familiar with vellameria) knew about the rite, but only the ones from Elbasan had witnessed one. I talked with an individual from the late dictator Hoxha’s birthplace, Gjirokaster (also known as Argyrokastro, Greek for “silver castle”) who gave a simple but moving account of how Hoxha’s attempts at promoting both atheism and homophobia miserably failed; in his hometown people now practiced their religion, and as far as the anti-gay violence and sentiments found elsewhere, “that is unknown where I come from; everyone eats at the same table and those differences don’t matter”. As far as vellameria and the fact that some researchers in the U.S. think it is a gay marriage, he simply said, “Yes, that’s what it is for”. No shock, no need to explain it away or make elaborate theories to obscure the fact. Other Albanians had no difficulty, despite their heterosexuality, with going over my translations, word for word, of a number of Albanian gay love songs and giving their insights on the terms. Not one of over 20 Albanians I spoke to about this was uncomfortable with this, unlike most Albanian Americans who seem to have acquired American homophobia in many cases.

http://www.axios.org/doku.php?id=on_...x_gay_may_1997




http://books.google.se/books?id=N_IX...ania&pg=PA115# 114-116 pages ....

Albanian pederasty was a custom reported by Western travelers in the 19th century."[1][2] Among these are counted Edvard Westermarck[3] John Hobhouse, 1st Baron Broughton, who in his travel journal[4] reports that pederasty was "openly practiced," and Johann Georg von Hahn[5], also known as "the father of Albanian studies.[6] According to these reports it was common and socially accepted for young men between sixteen and twenty-four to court boys from about twelve to seventeen. [5]

In the literature, the older lover is called ashik (after the Arabic ishq, "passionate love") and the beloved, or dyllber (after the Turkish dilber, "beautiful")[7]. A Geg married at the age of 24 or 25, and then he usually, but not always, gave up boy-love.

The practice was curtailed by the advent of communism in 1944.[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_pederasty

In the Balkans, same-sex marriage survived until modern days, in the form of the Albanian rite of vellameria, "brother bond."

http://calledoutbeliever.web.officel...s/Marriage.doc

Turkey

In the Ottoman empire, same-sex relations between men and youths were often of a mercantile nature. The sex workers involved were either entertainers such as the köçeks or masseurs in the hammams known as tellak. The sexual doings of the Turks came under frequent criticism by their Christian neighbors. There were exceptions as well. Osman Agha of Temeşvar who fell captive to the Austrians in 1688 wrote in his memoirs that one night an Austrian boy approached him for sex, telling him "for I know all Turks are pederasts".[21] The European conception of "all Turks are pederasts" possibly rooted in the often military nature of contacts with Ottoman Turks. Although zamparas (men drawn to women) outnumbered kulamparas (men drawn to boys) in society, Turkish military culture (especially Janissary culture) had pederasty as a principal aspect. Young Christian soldiers who were imprisoned by Turks were often raped and Janissary regiments (named orta) would frequently engage in skirmishes for rights over a young and beautiful novice (civelek). In 1770s, Âşık Sadık the poet wrote, in an address to the Sultan: Lût kavmi döğüşür, put kavmi bozar. Askerin lûtîdir, bil Padişahım ("The people of Lot fight, the people of idolatry spoil. Know, my Sultan, that your soldiers are sodomites").[22] Studies of Ottoman criminal law, which is based on the Sharia, reveal that persistent sodomy with non-consenting boys was a serious offense and those convicted faced capital punishment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacch%C3%A1 A-stan, P-stan, Persia etc.

let´s keep this discussion on a scientific level

Well if in Christian society,men couldn't approach women that easily and at the same time avoid the social segregation, can't even imagine Muslim society at the same era.

Edit: I mean that same society norms that were dictating strict and disciplined behavior of an individual created side effect behavior which is, according to that society -unapproved,i.e huge no-no.

Originally Posted by frozy

Well if in Christian society,men couldn't approach women that easily and at the same time avoid the social segregation, can't even imagine Muslim society at the same era.

Edit: I mean that same society norms that were dictating strict and disciplined behavior of an individual created side effect behavior which is, according to that society -unapproved,i.e huge no-no.

senx Allah your women(B) are .... approachable , very approachable ...

Polygamy is more common in Muslim societies. So a few men monopolize a large number of women. Many men are left without women so they turn to each other.

I am happy to accept your historical background ( frankly my knowledge in this area is zero) but I don't personally believe it has much relevance to today's scene .
I see continued revulsion of Gay practices almost universally in Russia and Ukraine with the exception of international cities--- say , like Moscow , St Petersburg and Kiev , where there is improvement in enlightened parts .
But the rest of the population still regard them as unnatural and against teaching , both Christian and Moslem .Regardless of facts , whatever they may be .
Other East European countries like Poland remain violently homophobic in general terms .
And in Fundamentalist communities the practises are despised and Gay's lives would be at almost certain risk .
In America , and talking again in the most general terms , you can group Florida , California and East Coast ( New York area) as being reasonably Gay friendly . But after that , homophobia rules and the nearer you get to the Bible Belt , the more pronounced it is . You have only to participate here across all areas of the Forum to see that view completely endorsed .
In the UK it would be very unwise to make homophobic comments publicly . The vast majority of people can now see how wrong it is to do so , and regardless , they know they risk serious court punishment if they are guilty of harassment or discrimination .
My limited experience of being involved with Moslem males has shown me how much more repressed they are sexually --- all classes . So , what once might have been true looks as though it has changed .

Originally Posted by litwin

senx Allah your women(B) are .... approachable , very approachable ...

huh?! -__-

Originally Posted by Anansi the Spider

Polygamy is more common in Muslim societies. So a few men monopolize a large number of women. Many men are left without women so they turn to each other.

polygamy in Asian and African Muslim society means up to 4 women according to the sharia and Book. European Muslims, i.e Balkan Muslims don't practice that, or at least it's not approved to practice that anywhere in Balkans.

Originally Posted by frozy

polygamy in Asian and African Muslim society means up to 4 women according to the sharia and Book. European Muslims, i.e Balkan Muslims don't practice that, or at least it's not approved to practice that anywhere in Balkans.

Bosnia and Herzegovina

The Muslim communities of Bosnia and Herzegovina have been traditionally known to practice polygamy at a very limited level. The custom last existed in Cazinska Krajina in the early 1950s.[50] Although illegal in the country, polygamy is encouraged by certain religious circles and there is a current increase in the number of practitioners. This trend appears linked with the advent of Wahhabism in the Balkans.[51]

The Bosniak population in neighbouring Sandžak has also been affected by this trend in Bosnia. There have been attempts to adopt an entire Islamic jurisdiction including polygamy but these moves have been rejected. However, this has not barred the top cleric, the Mufti of Novi Pazar, Muamer Zukorlić from taking a second wife.[52]

looks like the Wahhabists want to torn your Country in an another gay haven

Vibrant communities of men who enjoy sex with other men can be found in cosmopolitan cities like Jeddah and Riyadh. They meet in schools, in cafés, in the streets, and on the Internet. “You can be cruised anywhere in Saudi Arabia, any time of the day,” said Radwan, a 42-year-old gay Saudi American who grew up in various Western cities and now lives in Jeddah. “They’re quite shameless about it.” Talal, a Syrian who moved to Riyadh in 2000, calls the Saudi capital a “gay heaven.”

looks like the Russians are quite ok with this, as well

Russia

Polygamy is illegal throughout the Russian Federation but is tolerated in predominantly Muslim republics such as Chechnya, Ingushetia, and Dagestan.[40] Ramzan Kadyrov, President of the Chechen Republic, has been quoted on radio as saying that the depopulation of Chechnya by war justifies legalizing polygamy.[41] Kadyrov has been supported by Nafigallah Ashirov, the Chairman of the Council of Grand Muftis of Russia, with the statement that polygamy is already widespread among Muslim communities of the country.[42]

Originally Posted by frozy

huh?! -__-

yes,!! and its nice)....


more here http://missosology.info/forum/viewto...84638&start=30

Originally Posted by litwin

yes,!! and its nice)....

I have been a member of Russian Cupid .com for some time . In itself it justifies the whole idea of the Internet .
It seems to me we should be discussing the benefits of sites like this , rather than Gay matters .