Russian jets 'intercepted by US' - Page 20

Sadistic-Savior · #**191** (**permalink**) 04-04-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

With pressure to the countries that were on the way from Russia to Serbia. Russia could not get the flying clearance from those countries and she could not deliver the SAMs and planes.

What pressure was that?

Sadistic-Savior · #**192** (**permalink**) 04-04-2008, 08:24 AM

Quote:

You can do whatever you want because Russia & Chine are human country and they do not wish, because of you(with no human feeling), to destroy our world.

The PRC doesn't speak for anyone but themselves...certainly not the Chinese People, who have no say in their government.

Russia is a democracy, and I fully recognize them as our equals, just as I would Japan or Britain or any other democracy.

Quote:

Just keep pushing.

Done and Done.

AmusedToDeath · #**193** (**permalink**) 04-04-2008, 08:35 AM

Pressure to deny clearance to fly over some countries. I believe Hungary to be one of them.

AmusedToDeath · #**194** (**permalink**) 04-04-2008, 08:39 AM

I found it:

Quote:

Kosovo: Russian S-300 SAMs 'in Serbia'

ZORAN KUSOVAC
JDW Correspondent

According to unsubstantiated reports Russia or elements in Russia are believed to have supplied air defence units of the Yugoslav Air Force with elements of between six and 10 S-300PM (NATO Codename: SA-10b 'Grumble') long-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems just weeks before NATO launched its bombing campaign on 24 March.

Several unrelated sources claim the systems were delivered incomplete, without the 36D6 ('Clam Shell') target designation and tracking radar. Sources within Serbia claim the S-300 deliveries were interrupted by the bombing, and the radars never reached Serbia.

These allegations are vigorously denied by the Russia embassy in London: "The Russian government denies any violation of international norms, especially in respect of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. Allegations of arms smuggling are without foundation."

However, another Serbian military source has suggested that the only part ever to reach Belgrade were the missiles without their original self-propelled transporter-launcher units. According to this high-ranking officer, the first shipment of elements of the S-300 system entered Serbia by land in early 1999, hidden in railway wagons carrying scrap iron. Up to 20 missiles may have entered this way.

The distinctive MAZ-7910 vehicles which carry the launcher unit and serve as the basis for the 'Flap Lid B' radar vehicle/command post posed more of a problem to deliver. The NATO campaign started before any means of covert delivery had been found.

Sources believe Yugoslav engineers had already been working on plans to modify existing radars and make the S-300 at least partly operational. It appears that the older-generation radars could not be successfully adapted to the latest generation S-300 PMU2 (SA-10d), but engineers claimed they would be able to modify the existing P-15M ('Squat Eye') radar and PRV-11 ('Side Net') height-finder to be successfully paired with older- generation S-300 missiles.

Although denied by Russian arms export agency Rosvoorouzhenie, sources believe elements inside Russia agreed to supply an unspecified quantity of the S-300PM (SA-10b) missiles. These are believed to have been smuggled in a Russian humanitarian convoy, inside what appeared to be fuel tankers. The convoy was stopped at the Hungarian border, with authorities deeming the 73-vehicle convoy to be in violation of the embargo against Yugoslavia. It is believed the Russians were eventually allowed to get through, allegedly carrying four older-generation missiles.

This was again denied by Russia. "The components of the S-300 are large-sized ones, so their transportation to Yugoslavia by air, water or road couldn't be performed inperceptibly for NATO intelligence sources", stressed Rosvoorouzhenie.

The system is alleged to have been deployed deployed in the Banat plains of Vojvodina, some 10km east of the Belgrade industrial suburb of Pancevo. The site of a major oil refinery and numerous chemical and industrial plants, Pancevo was heavily targeted on a daily basis and promised to provide a 'target-rich environment'. It is believed a live firing test was scheduled for 30 May under the command of Air Force Gen Ljubisa Velickovic. Two P-15M radars were set to operate in parallel with the aim of targeting two NATO bombers simultaneously.

The Serbian air defence unit never managed to launch the S-300. It is believed radar emissions from the launch site were detected by the aircraft covering the F-16s bombing the Pancevo refinery and a precise hit by a NATO missile destroyed the launch site killing Gen Velickovic and a number of other officers.

After this failure the Serbs believed the technology would never work and apparently withdrew the remaining S-300s to underground tunnels in the Rakovica suburb south of Belgrade.

http://www.janes.com/defence/news/ko...804_01_n.shtml

Sadistic-Savior · #**195** (**permalink**) 04-04-2008, 08:56 AM

Quote:

According to unsubstantiated reports Russia or elements in Russia are believed to have supplied air defence units of the Yugoslav Air Force with elements of between six and 10 S-300PM (NATO Codename: SA-10b 'Grumble') long-range surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems just weeks before NATO launched its bombing campaign on 24 March.

[...] These allegations are vigorously denied by the Russia embassy in London: "The Russian government denies any violation of international norms, especially in respect of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. Allegations of arms smuggling are without foundation."

[...] This was again denied by Russia. "The components of the S-300 are large-sized ones, so their transportation to Yugoslavia by air, water or road couldn't be performed inperceptibly for NATO intelligence sources", stressed Rosvoorouzhenie.

Uh huh.

Not only is your source unsubstantiated, but even in your own source Russia denies they did it, heh heh

Quote:

The Serbian air defence unit never managed to launch the S-300. It is believed radar emissions from the launch site were detected by the aircraft covering the F-16s bombing the Pancevo refinery and a precise hit by a NATO missile destroyed the launch site killing Gen Velickovic and a number of other officers.

Lol

(I usuaklly hate using that acronym, but it seemed appropriate)

sunnyside · #**196** (**permalink**) 04-04-2008, 09:12 AM

We might get to see stealth on S-400 action depending on who you sell the things to.

I have a feeling the range on the missiles won't be that relevant though. Even against a non stealthy craft unless they're over the ocean or something like that and if the missile can maintain that top speed the whole time the target plane would still have over a minute to evade or dip behind some terrain.

I suppose it could be usuful for chasing planes off though. (Fire at long range and they may just decide to turn around and kick on the afterburners to get out of range instead of trying to evade.)

Though again with stealth (against modern systems), it isn't about being totally invisible. It's about being much much harder to see when zipping in low, being harder to lock, and making it harder for the missile to tell the plane from the countermeasures.

AmusedToDeath · #**197** (**permalink**) 04-04-2008, 09:13 AM

What I wanted to tell you is this: Russia did not manage to supply modern hardware prior to the conflict, and it was impossible to do during the conflict.

marko.t · #**198** (**permalink**) 04-04-2008, 09:43 AM

The Serbian air defence unit never managed to launch the S-300. It is believed radar emissions from the launch site were detected by the aircraft covering the F-16s bombing the Pancevo refinery and a precise hit by a NATO missile destroyed the launch site killing Gen Velickovic and a number of other officers.

This newer happened. It was not s-300.It was regular sam. Maybe Neva or Cub.The general was killed when he came to the rocket position. And during the air rade he made soldiers turn on the radar. Then they wore hit by anti-sam rocket.

Sadistic-Savior · #**199** (**permalink**) 04-04-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

What I wanted to tell you is this: Russia did not manage to supply modern hardware prior to the conflict, and it was impossible to do during the conflict.

So far I have not even seen evideence that they WANTED to sell arms to you. Even in your own source they deny such a desire.

It wasnt necessarily that they couldnt (if they really wanted to they could have airlifted the missiles in), it was that they didnt want to. Apparently their love for the Serbian People doesnt include arming you with anything you can really use. I'm sure they are happy to send you flowers and candy though.

Quote:

This newer happened. It was not s-300.It was regular sam.

I agree with you. It is still kinda funny though.

Novi Sad · #**200** (**permalink**) 04-04-2008, 01:50 PM

Tell me, my dear friend...
if Russian army is so powerfull, how come they didn't manage to supply their own troops who arrived first at Prishtina's airport Slatina after Yugoslavian Army drawback? They were lazy or...?

Hint: Yugoslavia was surrounded by NATO members and candidates for NATO membership.

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