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Old 02-23-2008, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GreedIsYourGod View Post
I think it would be a bad idea to set a precedent for being oblivious to Russia ballooning right back up to it's former size and influence.
Are you oblivious to what is happening with many former states of the USSR - they are leaving the CIS and forming democratic states. How would Serbia give Russia all they had during the Cold War? It wouldn't, but it is still an ethical decision. Either you support government by the people and government by terrorism in Kosovo, OR you support government by the people (the current head of Serbian parliament is democratic) and government by apprehension in Serbia.

We are so oblivious to the state of the world and so fearful of other political ideologies, we would rather terrorism over democracy; when the majority of Serbia is democratic, and their parliament does not support the burning of the US embassy and other happenings.
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Last edited by commonsense; 02-23-2008 at 10:32 PM.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2008, 11:28 PM
ObsidianSol ObsidianSol is offline
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Oh, I understand american superiority. Better yet, I believe in American Superiority. While most of the other "advanced" countries in the world run around spouting about sovereignty and how countries should have their own cultures and customs, America is the only one (really) who is willing, and able, to get their hands dirty to get the job done. While we make mistakes sometimes, maybe even often, we at least make an effort. Tell me, what was Russia's last humanitarian effort?
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Old 02-23-2008, 11:40 PM
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Post Not a long time ago...

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Originally Posted by ObsidianSol View Post
Tell me, what was Russia's last humanitarian effort?
After Katrina disaster we ofered two jets loaded by humanitarian cargo.The offer was declined by the U.S. State Department but accepted later.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2008, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ObsidianSol View Post
Oh, I understand american superiority. Better yet, I believe in American Superiority. While most of the other "advanced" countries in the world run around spouting about sovereignty and how countries should have their own cultures and customs, America is the only one (really) who is willing, and able, to get their hands dirty to get the job done. While we make mistakes sometimes, maybe even often, we at least make an effort. Tell me, what was Russia's last humanitarian effort?
Attempting to dissuade the world to back a terrorist organization in Kosovo.

Our government's heart was in the right place, the Muslims in Kosovo should have some level of autonomy, but where was our mind? There has been absolutely no action or discussion in any NATO, UN, or US press reports on what to do with members of the KLA.

A decade after Milosevic’s atrocities, the guerilla unit of Kosovo has convinced the world separation from Serbia is the best course of action. Kosovo has had few meaningful dealings with the Serbian government since 99 and no opportunity was given to the Serbian government to rule over Kosovo, even after the recent moves in the Serbian parliament for the better. There was no second chance after Milosevic. Now, as members of the former guerilla unit head to the parliament of Kosovo, we – the free world – endorse the government with a stamp of approval while the KLA is operating affairs under our noses, kept in check by the very members of their parliament; this is my problem with the whole situation. Rid the parliament and Kosovo of the KLA, just as Milosevic’s regime was disbanded – they were both perpetrators of war crimes and only one received the blunt of the world, the other received camaraderie. Once this is done I will actually be for the newfound independence (under certain conditions for minorities), but I highly doubt any such action will take place.
(Note the UN never gave Serbia the chance to include Kosovo's interdependence after Milosevic)

“Kosovo's parliament gave President Fatmir Sejdiu a second term on Wednesday and will vote later on a coalition government headed by ex-guerrilla Hashim Thaci, who promises to lead the province to independence from Serbia early this year.” – Shaban Buza
http://uk.reuters.com/article/latest...78655220080109
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Last edited by commonsense; 02-23-2008 at 11:50 PM.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2008, 11:57 PM
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Default Kosovo is Serbia

Republic of Kosovo does not exist. Explaination:

1. Republic of Kosovo is not a UN, OSCE, CE... member (Fact)
2. Over 70% Kosovo's property is Serbian owner (source: UNMIK)
3. UCK (Kosovo's "liberation Army") is terorist organization (source: CIA)
4. In Serbia now live over 30% minority, without Kosovo. (source OSCE)
5. Before 1999. war in Kosovo had lived over 400.000 Serbs, but after war (and today) just 150.000 Serbs
6. Before WWII in Kosovo had lived 50% Serbian population - Now las than 10% (Fact)
7. Albania was Nazi ally in WWII (neutral in WWI). Serbia won WWI and WWII (Fact)

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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2008, 12:02 AM
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Talking An excellent point

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Originally Posted by Free Mind View Post
UCK (Kosovo's "liberation Army") is terorist organization (source: CIA)
Excited screams of Kosovars, declared independence : "Thank you, America! Allah akbar"
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2008, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Free Mind View Post
Republic of Kosovo does not exist. Explaination:

1. Republic of Kosovo is not a UN, OSCE, CE... member (Fact)
2. Over 70% Kosovo's property is Serbian owner (source: UNMIK)
3. UCK (Kosovo's "liberation Army") is terorist organization (source: CIA)
4. In Serbia now live over 30% minority, without Kosovo. (source OSCE)
5. Before 1999. war in Kosovo had lived over 400.000 Serbs, but after war (and today) just 150.000 Serbs
6. Before WWII in Kosovo had lived 50% Serbian population - Now las than 10% (Fact)
7. Albania was Nazi ally in WWII (neutral in WWI). Serbia won WWI and WWII (Fact)

Greetings from Free Land
Free Mind

www.kosovoisserbia.cjb.net

It is more than unfortunate Serbian land was infiltrated by the Muslim faith, but we have to understand the world's perspective after Milosevic which was, needless to say, genocide. Because of this, those Albanian Muslims in Kosovo, whether we like it or not, are indebted to the land by a bond of human intolerance just as Serbs were bonded to the land by history. I do disagree on never letting Serbia have another chance at ruling her land once more before the UN resolution was passed; and I vehemently disagree with the people in power in Kosovo.
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Last edited by commonsense; 02-24-2008 at 12:13 AM.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2008, 09:17 AM
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We are so oblivious to the state of the world and so fearful of other political ideologies, we would rather terrorism over democracy; when the majority of Serbia is democratic, and their parliament does not support the burning of the US embassy and other happenings.
Excellent conclusion!

Quote:
It is more than unfortunate Serbian land was infiltrated by the Muslim faith, but we have to understand the world's perspective after Milosevic which was, needless to say, genocide. Because of this, those Albanian Muslims in Kosovo, whether we like it or not, are indebted to the land by a bond of human intolerance just as Serbs were bonded to the land by history. I do disagree on never letting Serbia have another chance at ruling her land once more before the UN resolution was passed; and I vehemently disagree with the people in power in Kosovo.
I fully understand what you have in mind.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2008, 09:34 AM
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A decade after Milosevic’s atrocities, the guerilla unit of Kosovo has convinced the world separation from Serbia is the best course of action. Kosovo has had few meaningful dealings with the Serbian government since 99 and no opportunity was given to the Serbian government to rule over Kosovo, even after the recent moves in the Serbian parliament for the better. There was no second chance after Milosevic. Now, as members of the former guerilla unit head to the parliament of Kosovo, we – the free world – endorse the government with a stamp of approval while the KLA is operating affairs under our noses, kept in check by the very members of their parliament; this is my problem with the whole situation. Rid the parliament and Kosovo of the KLA, just as Milosevic’s regime was disbanded – they were both perpetrators of war crimes and only one received the blunt of the world, the other received camaraderie. Once this is done I will actually be for the newfound independence (under certain conditions for minorities), but I highly doubt any such action will take place.
(Note the UN never gave Serbia the chance to include Kosovo's interdependence after Milosevic)
Commmonsense, you make wonderful conclusions!
Yes, after overthrowing Milosevic nobody gave as the chance to rule Kosovo again, as our new methods would be completely democratic and under observation of the whole international community. But USA did not wage this war in order to give the province back to Serbs. And that is why the Serbs do not believe Americans. That's why we are convinced that the true motive was not democracy in Kosovo but creating a puppet state which will be easily controlled from the outside, as well as from the inside (taking into consideration the very existance of the military base Bondsteel)
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Old 02-24-2008, 11:52 AM
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Perhaps you do sit on such gas reserves, but Europe does not. And as long as Russia supplies the gas to Europe, the political influence shall be stronger and stronger.
...unless they develop alternative fuels...like we are doing.


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Which is why, regardless of whether we ethically or politically back this new indipendence, we need to keep Russia from regaining this territory.
It's not Russia's territory. Thats the point.

It would be like Russia saying "We need to stop the US from regaining Mexico".



Him: Tell me, what was Russia's last humanitarian effort?

Quote:
After Katrina disaster we ofered two jets loaded by humanitarian cargo.The offer was declined by the U.S. State Department but accepted later.
Yeah, but ?

I know you USED to do nice stuff for us...but what have you done for us lately.



Quote:
Our government's heart was in the right place, the Muslims in Kosovo should have some level of autonomy, but where was our mind?
On empowering the masses. Right where it should be. I hope this is a continuing trend.


Quote:
Republic of Kosovo does not exist. Explaination:

1. Republic of Kosovo is not a UN, OSCE, CE... member (Fact)
So what. The same is true of Taiwan. They seem to be doing ok without them.

The UN is not final authority on the legitimacy of a nation. If they were we would have never violated Iraq's "sovereignty" by invading it...and gotten away with it.

The US says it is legitimate. Thats all that matters.



Quote:
Yes, after overthrowing Milosevic nobody gave as the chance to rule Kosovo again, as our new methods would be completely democratic and under observation of the whole international community. But USA did not wage this war in order to give the province back to Serbs.
Correct. Our function there was not to establish Serbian dominion.
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