Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > Politics by Region > Russia & Eastern Europe


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2008, 10:03 PM
AmusedToDeath's Avatar
AmusedToDeath AmusedToDeath is offline
Banned
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mighty Serbia
Posts: 3,555
serbia
AmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud of
Credits: 14,578
Default

Yes, I understand what you are trying to point out. A group of 100 crazy drunk idiots brings shame upon the whole nation.

But then again, Serbia does not wish to control Albanians. We want to give them the highest ever recognized autonomy and complete self-government.

All we want is to call that land Serbia, and not to erase our graves from it by taking it.

Last edited by AmusedToDeath; 02-21-2008 at 10:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #52 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2008, 10:31 PM
commonsense's Avatar
commonsense commonsense is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,204
usa us texas
commonsense is a splendid one to beholdcommonsense is a splendid one to beholdcommonsense is a splendid one to beholdcommonsense is a splendid one to beholdcommonsense is a splendid one to beholdcommonsense is a splendid one to beholdcommonsense is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 6,759
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by raytri View Post
Yes, I know that's the line given by opponents of the intervention.

Given all the crap Serbia pulled with the breakaway republics (Bosnia in particular), it wasn't worth giving them the benefit of the doubt.
This is not Bosnia, it's bad we delineate our views from then. This was legit guerilla terrorist warfare.
__________________
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried" Churchill
Reply With Quote
  #53 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2008, 10:38 PM
sunnyside sunnyside is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,354
usa
sunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud of
Credits: 16,509
Default

That I think is your best point to date. It does sound like you were willing to give the region quite a bit of autonomy. Though even with NATO present we hear about ill treatment of Albanians and kosovski dodatak for the Serbs.

Though I don't know the details of that.

I do admit to feeling sorry for you if international impressions of the Serbs are actually due to a small minority.

But I'm afraid that is the impression held in the US. Ethnic cleansing, burned embassies, and by logical extension more violence if you get back into Kosovo.
Reply With Quote
  #54 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2008, 10:53 PM
AmusedToDeath's Avatar
AmusedToDeath AmusedToDeath is offline
Banned
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mighty Serbia
Posts: 3,555
serbia
AmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud of
Credits: 14,578
Default

Much damage was brought upon Serbia during the Milosevic period.

We hardly managed to put the man out.

But since 2000 Serbs have several times expressed themselves clearly in favor of democracy and euro-atlantic integrations. Serbia fulfilled almost every request that came from the West. Conducted economic and political reforms, sent war criminals to trial,etc...

And what did we get in return? Cutting off a piece of our land.

Well, the Americans have just made one more enemy instead of gaining a strong ally in the Balkans.

So, who takes all the points? Russia, of course. The only winner.
Reply With Quote
  #55 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2008, 11:04 PM
sunnyside sunnyside is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,354
usa
sunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud of
Credits: 16,509
Default

I think I asked before, but that was in a different thread with a different Serb and didn't get a reply.

Why do you think America and many other nations back Kosovo independence?
Reply With Quote
  #56 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2008, 11:37 PM
AmusedToDeath's Avatar
AmusedToDeath AmusedToDeath is offline
Banned
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mighty Serbia
Posts: 3,555
serbia
AmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud ofAmusedToDeath has much to be proud of
Credits: 14,578
Default

Quote:
Why do you think America and many other nations back Kosovo independence?
Many reasons...

First: US military base, strong military presence in this part of Europe and control of the Balkans.

Second: Very very strong Albanian lobby (second to Jewish in strength). Albanians have invested more then 20 bill dollars in bribing western politicians for decades to fight for their cause. But the money is dirty and bloody - drugs mostly.

Third: Clearing their name in front of muslim countries of the east.

Fourth: Serbian traditional good relations with Russia.

Fifth: Creating a puppet state, easy to control in every sense

And many many more... As far as other countries are concerned, it is not their decesion, but American. They were forced to do so (like Slovenia and many other countries)....
Reply With Quote
  #57 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:01 AM
Grond's Avatar
Grond Grond is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vladivostok
Posts: 1,319
russia
Grond is a glorious beacon of lightGrond is a glorious beacon of lightGrond is a glorious beacon of lightGrond is a glorious beacon of lightGrond is a glorious beacon of lightGrond is a glorious beacon of light
Credits: 5,220
Icon12 Nobody talks about suicide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
I am pretty sure they would. Russians are pragmatists. They are not going to stick their necks out for you.
No, Russia is not going to commit suicide over Serbia, heh heh. Their concern for you is superficial.
Just a help to our Slavic brothers to kick arse of those dirty kosovar moslems and their western masters
__________________
EU : Portable Stereo AM/FM Radio Cassette Recorder
CIS (Russia) : АМ/ЧМ Stereo Magnitola
US : Boombox (Ghettoblaster)
Reply With Quote
  #58 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2008, 04:07 AM
Grond's Avatar
Grond Grond is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vladivostok
Posts: 1,319
russia
Grond is a glorious beacon of lightGrond is a glorious beacon of lightGrond is a glorious beacon of lightGrond is a glorious beacon of lightGrond is a glorious beacon of lightGrond is a glorious beacon of light
Credits: 5,220
Icon14

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmusedToDeath View Post
Some of the reports:
:thumbs up: ! And Zoltan Dani is a National Hero, I bet!
__________________
EU : Portable Stereo AM/FM Radio Cassette Recorder
CIS (Russia) : АМ/ЧМ Stereo Magnitola
US : Boombox (Ghettoblaster)
Reply With Quote
  #59 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2008, 07:45 AM
sunnyside sunnyside is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,354
usa
sunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud ofsunnyside has much to be proud of
Credits: 16,509
Default

Interesting enough.

On the first reason would Serbia have been unwilling to let the US have a base there? Do we really gain there?

I guess I can't swear to the power, but it doesn't seem like the the AACL is on the same level as AIPAC or the other big players at all from the official amount they're spending. I suppose something else could be going on. But 2 billion? Do you have a link of some sort for that?

The other points seem reasonable enough.


Another question though. Why all of this now? The UN proposal that started the ball rolling for Kosovo independence was over a year ago. And while it didn't make the front page here until independence was declared, stories have been calling it a sure thing for over a month. And it's probably been known longer than that especially in your country.

Why protest now instead of then? I could understand not making a fuss while it looked like a Russian veto insured Kosovo could never be free through the UN directly. But wouldn't it have made more sense to protest when it became obvious they were going to declare independence and going to be recognized? It would seem like your countries efforts would be much more likely to be successful then.
Reply With Quote
  #60 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2008, 08:00 AM
raytri's Avatar
raytri raytri is offline
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Minnesota
Age: 41
Posts: 18,489
usa us minnesota
raytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond reputeraytri has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 115,541
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmusedToDeath View Post
But I repeat, these individual cases have nothing to do with the vast majority of Serbs who are peace loving and very hospitable people. If you come to Serbia one day, you will find out what I am talking about.
I totally believe that. Most people are decent, peaceful and friendly. I have no reason to believe Serbs are any different.

But your government had done many bad things leading up to Kosovo, and it was time to say "enough is enough."
__________________
Man up.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Over 700.000 serbs demonstrate tonight against the illegal Kosovo independence..... Markoni Political Opinions & Beliefs 97 02-28-2008 08:18 AM
Civil riot dano Civil Liberties 6 10-17-2007 11:24 AM
Cincinnati Will Be A Riot 88punx New World Order 24 04-16-2007 06:17 PM
Riot in Kabul nawbut Middle East 20 06-01-2006 11:56 AM
The Anti-Pro-Palestinian Protest Protest catzmeow Political Opinions & Beliefs 7 09-13-2004 12:12 PM

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden