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Old 02-28-2008, 09:28 PM
GovernmentCheese GovernmentCheese is offline
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Originally Posted by commonsense View Post
Serbia was the bulkhead of the Christian countries between Europe and the Middle East, they saw themselves as the defense of Europe then, and to a point now, against the influx of Islam. The Turks advanced into the southwestern part of the actual Serbian kingdom (not other lands the kingdom previously conquered). Serbia, Bosnia, and Morea were considered by some an empire, others considered them separate lands under the same feudal territory. The Ottomans were more concerned with Hungary's actions if they proceeded further in the Balkans, than attacking the kingdom of Serbia themselves; and after facing stiff resistance from Serbia they did not need a war with Hungary also (after all, they did have Anatolia and Mongols to contend with).

This battle was the saving grace of Europe to the Serbs. It would be like an 'empire' taking a small portion of the US and a certain state holding this 'empire' off. It would contribute to an enormous sense of nationalism for the people.
Poll one in five Serbians that are white. Poll one in five Serbians that are black. You see, the relationship isn't even comparable. Of course I don't think the country of Serbia even makes a comparison so have fun.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008, 09:29 PM
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Poll one in five Serbians that are white. Poll one in five Serbians that are black. You see, the relationship isn't even comparable. Of course I don't think the country of Serbia even makes a comparison so have fun.
I'm not sure what you meant by this, please elaborate.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:42 PM
GovernmentCheese GovernmentCheese is offline
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I'm not sure what you meant by this, please elaborate.
I don't think the conflict is just faith related. People of darker color are looked down upon by some and I just don't want to see white or coloured people get out of control.

For the record, I am 1/8th Cherokee, so I am a mutt and maybe even more precentage wise. Who knows.

Even in Europe, we are all mutts if you consider evolution to be an exact science.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:51 PM
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I don't think the conflict is just faith related. People of darker color are looked down upon by some and I just don't want to see white or coloured people get out of control.
Europe seems to have areas of conservative ancestral history, many groups stay within the borders of certain areas, and those borders usually conflict with differing peoples. Whereas the US is just a melting pot.

The conflict is not all race related, I was only trying to establish a basis as to the 'nation' of Kosovo and how it never existed in the original kingdom of Serbia. The issues we are seeing today in Kosovo are much more political than anything else. I do propose it will create confusion and conflict among some Islamic people, especially in the Middle East and around the Caspian.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:02 PM
GovernmentCheese GovernmentCheese is offline
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Originally Posted by commonsense View Post
Europe seems to have areas of conservative ancestral history, many groups stay within the borders of certain areas, and those borders usually conflict with differing peoples. Whereas the US is just a melting pot.

The conflict is not all race related, I was only trying to establish a basis as to the 'nation' of Kosovo and how it never existed in the original kingdom of Serbia. The issues we are seeing today in Kosovo are much more political than anything else. I do propose it will create confusion and conflict among some Islamic people, especially in the Middle East and around the Caspian.

So exactly why are we talking about this again after we entered Serbia?
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:21 PM
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So exactly why are we talking about this again after we entered Serbia?
As opposed to before? - (is this what you were asking?)

Because I and others believe our government made a quick irrational decision in jumping into this conflict. We should have directed some investigation, as is customary in foreign affairs, and created a draft which Serbia and Russia could have agreed with fairly.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:31 PM
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As opposed to before? - (is this what you were asking?)

Because I and others believe our government made a quick irrational decision in jumping into this conflict. We should have directed some investigation, as is customary in foreign affairs, and created a draft which Serbia and Russia could have agreed with fairly.
Its the jist of it and I am just wondering why we should be discussing it now. I'm no imperialist. Let em have it out.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:37 PM
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Its the jist of it and I am just wondering why we should be discussing it now. I'm no imperialist. Let em have it out.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:39 PM
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I'm suspicious of your take of how Serbia and Kosovo left the Byzantine empire.
If I understand correctly you've been trying to say they revolted together. Like how the States worked together to drive off British rule.


But everything I've read says that Stefan Nemanja broke off of the empire and originaly controlled an area with different spellings from source to source but one in central Serbia. From there he moved out and took chunks of land away from the Byzantines which included Montenegro, Kosovo,parts of Macedonia, and other bits of what is now Serbia. Some say all of Kosovo wasn't taken until much later.

Now I suppose the difference between conquering and "liberating" is always a little fuzzy. But it sounds like the Illyrians were just getting passed around from one master to the next. And even if they did welcome Serbian rule at the time that doesn't change the fact they got hosed over later.

But that isn't the point. The point is that the "cradle" of Serbia would be Stefan's turf. Kosovo was an add on that turned out to be important for trade and had the capitol moved there at some point.
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Old 02-28-2008, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Skeptikos Examiner View Post
"Until the destruction of the old federal Yugoslavia by Milosevic"



So much to the accuracy of the whole article! It was the other way around, Milosevic as democratic elected leader tryed to keep the country together while anti-western forces wanted to have Yugoslavia shattered into pieces!

The so called "historian" is either incompetent or straight outright dishonest!
In fact he did destroy Yugoslavia by abolishing the autonomy of Kosovo and Vojvodina and by controlling Montenegro. He then had complete control over 4 ''republics'' to oppose to the other 4: Slovenia, Bosnia, Croatia and Macedonia. He used this power in every issue and thus by the time the Yugoslav wars started the Serbs pretty much dominated Yugoslavia, including the federal army. The EU wanted no part of Milosevic so in order to be a part of the western world Slovenia had no choice but to leave FSRY. The other republics followed suit and Milosevic decided to use the ''federal'' army to force them to stay.
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