Either way, they killed civilians. Still do. They were dropped in urban areas.

Let me ask you something, if you went out to the street now and fired a few shots in the air, and killed some people with the bullet that came back, would that make you "not guilty"? Considering the fact you knew that firing shots in populated places could kill innocent people?

Not a very good analogy really.

If you had an intruder in your house and you used your gun to fire shots at the burgler and your bullet accidentally passed through a window and killed your neighbour - it would be a regrettable incident - but not a deliberate act of murder.

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Russian Imperialism is a greater danger to the World today than AlQueda terrorism

Killing civilians by accident is certainly different from killing civilians deliberately.


It would make me not guilty of murder, yes.


If I run a red light in my car, there is the potential I could kill someone. But if I accidentally hit someone, that doesn't mean I murdered them. Even though I might have been negligent. My goal was not to kill them, but to bypass the red light.

By contrast, if I deliberately try to run someone over with my car, that IS murder. Because my goal was to kill them.

Motive does matter.

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My Political Blog (Most recent update Oct 3rd) - Which Flame Warrior are you?

We really do try to avoid killing civilians. I know you'd like it more if we'd go to battle with both hands tied behind our back and a blindfold on. But the reality is we're only going to restrict ourselves to one hand tied behind our back, a boxing glove on the other, and an eyepatch,

I guess the cluster bombs would be like leaving the boxing glove at home. They are effective and relatively cheap too. But after Nis we put that glove on. Which again I think indicates that we didn't want to hurt people like we did. Specifically that it revealed that a malfuction in bomblet release could result in a wide area of civilian casualties far from the target.

Serbia sponsoring terrorist activities in Republic of Kosova

The presence of MUP (Serbia's Interior Ministry Police) in the Republic Kosova has been a plan which it was promised by Kostunica in his last elections. He promised the Serbian electorate that he would increase the presence of the Serbia's terrorist organizations and its institutions in the Republic of Kosova.

A lot of these officials of MUP (Serbian Police) are former soldiers and criminals of Arkan and Seselj who massacred hundreds of thousands in Republic of Kosova and Bosnia and Herzegovina. According to Sarajevo's Daily Avaz, in the Autonomous Serbian Territory in Bosnia, Serbs have opened local recruiting centers for " war" in Kosova.
Let's not forget an important thing here: The US State Department has listed 5 Serbian Organizations of Serbia in the Word's Terrorist Group List.

The latest world affairs analysis issued by the US State Department, which it includes an attachment letter of a long review from Pentagon, it clearly indicates the prevalence of terrorism being sponsored indirectly by the government of Serbia and its rebellious military officers and former military and administrative officers who worked for the government of Serbia during Milosevic, solely assigned to destabilize the new State, the Republic of Kosova.

Serbia is considered as one of the most dangerous countries in the world. MUP (Serbian Police) activities are an emulation of the ideas of terrorist groups of Hamas and November 17 likes. The Pentagon is aware of possible future terrorist attacks by Serbia and its terrorist groups against the Republic of Kosova, thus the urgency to arm the Republic of Kosova should not be a surprise to no one here.

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Jesus beat the devil with two sticks. Colossian 2:13,15

Proud American!

Communism/Socialism is similar to legalizing burglary and murder!

Kosovo is a part of Serbia. This is a simple historical fact, just as Scotland is historically a part of the United Kingdom. The new so called separtist independent Kosovo has no legitimacy in international law. The reality is that Kosovo has been given independent status as a result of it being overseen by the gangsters in the Whitehouse who have given another set of gangsters (the Albanian mafia) succession rights by proxy. You see this is what imperialist overlords do - they put into power the people who are sympathetic to them as a trade off as a means to further their geo-political and strategic objectives. Under Putin, Russia is no longer a soft touch as it was under its idiotic and alcholic predecessor. This is what the American and Albanian gangsters fear you see - a strong and powerful Russia. I have been following Amused to Deaths threads on this subject with great interest and would like to reaffirm the correctness of his line of argument throughout.

the same insulting rhetoric similar to Josef Stalin's and Adolf Hitler's speeches!

Russia is a rotten country with a dying breed, no freedom rights, oppressed political opposition, extreme poverty, undemocratic rules, and a place no one wants to live in, not even Russians themselves. You are watching a lot of science-fiction movies.

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Jesus beat the devil with two sticks. Colossian 2:13,15

Proud American!

Communism/Socialism is similar to legalizing burglary and murder!

And who are you to talk of Russia,a great civilization with great culture and glorious history... You are too small to even try to think that way. Albanians - nation without identity, Turkish horse breeders...

SOVIET CRIMES AGAINST POLAND
DURING WORLD WAR II

* * * * *

After World War II, the International Military Tribunal was established in Nuremberg to try the leaders of Nazi Germany for crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity. Crimes against peace involved initiating a war of aggression. War crimes involved: murder, ill-treatment, or deportation either of civilians or prisoners of war. Crimes against humanity involved: murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts committed against any civilians before or during war, and also persecution on political, racial or religious grounds. These acts, the charter of the Tribunal stated, were crimes "whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country where perpetrated". The Nazis were also guilty of the ultimate crime - the crime of genocide. After a thorough investigation, most of the defendants were convicted by the Tribunal of one or more of these horrific crimes and duly punished.

In a bizarre twist of fate, the Soviets, who were also guilty of all these crimes and therefore should have been in the dock alongside the Nazis, sat in righteous judgement upon them.
In regard to Poland alone, the list of Soviet crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity during World War II is very long indeed. It includes:

- the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and its secret Protocol for the partition of Poland

- the invasion and occupation in September 1939 of Eastern Poland, an area containing eight out of sixteen Poland's prewar provinces and representing 52 percent of Polish soil with over 13 million people

- the consequent breaking of two bilateral treaties with Poland, namely - the 1921 Treaty of Riga and the 1932 Polish-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, renewed in 1934 for an additional ten years; moreover, as a member (since 1934) of the League of Nations, the Soviet Union violated at least three multilateral pacts as well

- the gratuitous handing over of Wilno and the Wilno region to Lithuania in exchange for allowing the Soviets to have military bases in that country

- the rigged plebiscites on the basis of which the occupied Polish territories were incorporated into the Belorussian SSR and the Ukrainian SSR

- the wholesale looting of Polish raw materials, agricultural produce and both movable and immovable goods to Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union

- the wrecking of the Polish economy and the banking system

- the subversion of the Polish educational system, the arts, and the free press

- the trampling underfoot of human rights, including the freedoms of free speech, assembly and worship

- the confiscation of all Polish private and state landed property

- the exorbitant taxation without representation

- the four massive and other, less-known smaller deportations of entire Polish families to the Gulag

- the massive arrests of so-called counterrevolutionaries and anti-Soviet elements

- the internment of Polish POWs in forced-labour camps in occupied Eastern Poland and the USSR

- the 1940 cold-blooded execution and burial in mass graves in Katyn, Mednoye and Kharkov of 21 857 Polish prisoners (this exact number of those murdered comes from a 1959 KGB memorandum from Aleksandr Shelepin to Nikita Khruschev and represents the total number of executions during the April-May 1940 action, including 7300 persons murdered in Belorussia and Ukraine). The relatives of the victims in the Soviet-occupied part of Poland were subjected to one of the most severe repressions - deportation to the Gulag. In postwar Poland, they were not allowed to speak of the manner in which their loved ones died, and had to mourn them in complete silence

- the recently-discovered graves filled with Polish corpses near Tavda and Tomsk, east of the Ural Mountains

- the forced death marches to the interior of the Soviet Union following the June 1941 German invasion

- the massive, cold-blooded executions of thousands of prisoners in occupied Eastern Poland in the first days of that invasion

- the establishment of a communist party in Nazi-occupied Poland in early 1942 with orders to destabilize the Polish Home Army by denouncing its members to the Gestapo

- the Moscow 1943 order to combat the Polish underground with "every possible means"

- the establishment in 1943 of the Moscow-based Union of Polish Patriots to take over the Polish government after the war

- the deliberate withholding of material and military assistance to the defenders of Warsaw during the 1944 uprising

- Stalin's 1944 order to liquidate the members of all Polish underground forces, which resulted in the execution of thousands of Polish soldiers and the arrest and deportation of tens of thousands to the interior of the Soviet Union

- the luring of sixteen Polish leaders to Moscow in March, 1945 and their show trial

These, and similar Soviet actions cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Polish citizens throughout the war and caused indescribable pain and sufferings to millions more. Such a terrible physical and psychological reign of terror has seldom been witnessed in the annals of human history. Its main objective, no doubt, was nothing less than the complete destruction of the sociocultural life of the twenty year old Second Republic of Poland. Yet as of today, sixty years after the end of World War II, not a single Russian official or researcher that I can name, has had the courage to own up to the fact that during World War II the Soviet Union was no better than Nazi Germany; that it was in large measure responsible for the outbreak of World War II; and that its sinister ideology continued to plague the world, and Poland in particular, for years after that war was over.

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Jesus beat the devil with two sticks. Colossian 2:13,15

Proud American!

Communism/Socialism is similar to legalizing burglary and murder!

Since the fall of the Soviet Union, however, some progress has been made in that direction, especially in regard to the mass executions of 1940, collectively known as the Katyn Forest Massacre. Perhaps Russia's handling of the Katyn killings will provide the world with a definitive answer to the question whether there is any difference, after all, between the Russian and the Soviet mentality and conscience.

In 1990, when the Katyn debate reached a critical point in independent Poland, when the facts of the case could no longer be denied and when the cover-up could no longer be sustained - in other words, when the heat was on - Mikhail Gorbachev handed Wojciech Jaruzelski a folder of documents. They left no doubt as to who was responsible for the Katyn Massacre. Yet, there was no "smoking gun" in any of those documents. Then, in 1992 Boris Yeltsin suddenly "discovered" Beria's March 5, 1940, execution order in Gorbachev's private archive and handed it over, together with forty other documents, to Lech Walesa. Beria's order, signed by Stalin and members of the Politburo, reads that 25 700 prisoners are to be tried and sentenced to "the supreme penalty - shooting". Another hopeful sign that change was in the air, was the 1994 publication by a Russian historian, Nataliya Lebedeva, of a book called Katyn: A Crime Against Humanity. In 1995, Russia's Chief Military Prosecutor's Office began an official investigation into the Katyn killings. Things looked hopeful indeed.

When the Russian criminal case was closed in September 2004, historians the world over waited anxiously for the outcome of the investigation. On March 11, 2005, Chief Military Prosecutor Aleksandr Savenkov announced that after reviewing numerous documents, questioning over 900 witnesses, and conducting eighteen examinations, including exhumations, the investigators found no evidence of genocide. Moreover, those perpetrators, who are still alive, would not be prosecuted because of the statute of limitation. The case generated 183 volumes, 116 of which were said to contain state secrets. And that was that.

In December 2004, the Institute of National Remembrance in Poland had begun its own investigation into the matter with high hopes of gaining access to at least the 67 volumes of Russian investigative documents which did not contain state secrets.

From what we already know, the Katyn Massacre was both: a crime against humanity and also a war crime. Few will argue the point. But was it genocide? The starting point in the search for a plausible answer must be the 1948 Convention on Genocide which was unanimously adopted by the United Nations and which defined the term. Its Article II reads as follows: "In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such: (a) killing members of the group ..." (the Article goes on to list also four other acts). There is no question, but that in the case of Katyn, we have a national group (the Poles), which was destroyed "in part". The question therefore must hinge on whether they were destroyed "as such". In other words, were they killed only because they were Poles?

The NKVD order clearly condemns them all to death on political grounds, because they were, in the words of the document, "hardened and uncompromising enemies of Soviet authority". Who were these counterrevolutionaries? Polish officers and soldiers, rank and file policemen, civil officials, refugees from the German occupation zone, university professors, physicians, lawyers, engineers, teachers, priests, writers, journalists... Historical records also show that 700-900 of the victims were Polish Jews. All, all 25 700 were said to be "uncompromising enemies of Soviet authority". In reality, many belonged to the Polish intelligentsia which Stalin tried to eliminate to prevent the resurgence of independent Poland. The Russian commission no doubt drew its conclusion - that it was not genocide - on the basis that the prisoners were not killed because they were Poles, but rather because of their social status, because they were the enemies of the Soviet Union, as Beria's document plainly states. But the same could be said of Hitler's intention to exterminate the Jews - he did it not because they were Jews, but because they were the enemies of Germany and indeed of the whole world.

*

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Jesus beat the devil with two sticks. Colossian 2:13,15

Proud American!

Communism/Socialism is similar to legalizing burglary and murder!