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Old 04-14-2008, 03:01 PM
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Default Serbs trace roots to?

According to the theory based on the history, anthropology, and genetics, modern-day Serbs are an ethnic mix of two major different "peoples" and "races":

* Slavic peoples, including Slavic (Sabar) tribes which settled in the Balkans during the Avar invasion in the 6th century
* White Serbs (Sorbs of Lusatia), who settled in the Balkans in the 7th century, and who gave their name to the present-day Serbs.

Name of Sabar

Some suggest that the names of the Turkic Asian tribes Sabar and Kavar (*Havar) - Avar derived from the same root [common shift b > v, also allophones s/ h]. Thus, Sabars and Avars could be also descendants of Iranian Serbs (*Sabar) and Croats (Hrvat).

The remnant of Sabar, Avar excellent horsemanship in Turkish language was stamped in the cognate: tr. süvari ' cavalier, cavalry, cavalryman, chevalier, mounted troops, man'.

In the mid 5th C., Priskos Rhetor was the first to deal with the Sabar tribe which existed in the Western Siberian region. This supports the theory of the Sabar origin from the Balkhash region which is further supported by Chinese records concerning the related Hua tribes. According to Priscos's account, the Avar-Huns forced the Sabirs out of this land and over the Volga around 461-463CE because "a fog rose from the sea scaring people" and this was followed by countless "vultures descending upon the people". Then in 550, Zakharias Rhetor the church historian mentioned an "Avar" community in the west. Also in the mid 6th century, Menandros wrote about Avars. At the same time Procopius made a distinction in his History of the Wars, Books I and II, between White Huns and European Huns which Simokattes in the early half of the 7thC. defines as the real- and pseudo- avars respectively.

Based upon Simokattes's and other information, the Avars who entered Europe are thought to have been a combination of a Uyghur people called Hund[citation needed] and (because of the anthropological evidence as well as etymology on Avar Khagaan names like Bayan meaning "prosperous" in Mongol but meaning female in most western Altaic tongues) a Mongolian people called Var[citation needed] who united around Balk sometime between 410-470CE.

It has been determined through the unorganized information in various foreign resources that the Sabar Turkish community had played an important role in the Western Siberia and the northern region of the Caucasus in the 5th-6th centuries BC. This Turkish community were named as Sabar, Sabir, and Savir in the Byzantine resources and as Savır, Sabr, S(a)bir, Sibir, etc. in the Armenian, Syrian Christian, and Islamic resources.

There are allegations, which state that the Sabar people were of Slav or Mongolian or Finno-Ugrian origin. Recently, it has been suggested that they were Turks in origin in respect of the names that they hold and the historical and cultural characteristics. As a result of the labial attraction in various languages, the word of Sabar has been observed in various forms.
.






* Ernst Schwartz, Das Vordringen der Slawen nach Western, Südost-Forschungen, Band XV, Mönchen 1956
* Ernestus Brotuff, Chronica von den Salz-Bornen und Erbauung der Hall an der Sala... (Weiland J.J. 1554) in zwei Büchern Verfaset und Fleiss beschrieben. Hall in Sachsen 1679
* Franz Martin Pelzels Geschichte der Böhmen, von ältesten bis auf die neuesten Zeiten. Aus den besten einheimischen und auswärtigen Geschichtsschreibern, Kroniken und gleichzeitigen Handschriften zusammen getragen, Erster Theil, Vierte fortgesetzte Auflage, Prag 1817
* Franz Grabler. Aus dem Geschichtswerk des Laonikos Chalkokondilos. Europa im XV. Jahrhundert von Byzantinern gesehen. Byzantinische Geschichtsschreiber, Graz-Wien-Köln (1954)
* Friderici Wideburgii, Origines et antiquitates Marggraviatus Misnici... Halae Salicae 1734
* Franc. Xav. El. B. De Pejacsevich, Historia Serviae seu colloquia XIII de Statu Regni et religionis Serviae ab exordio ad finem, sive a saeculo VII ad XV. Auetore F.X. El. B. de Pejacsevich. Colocae MDCCXCVI (1796)
* Howorth. The Spread of the Slaves, The Journal of the Antropological Institute of Great Britain and Ireland, vol. IX, London 1880, Part III The Northern Serbs or Sorabiens and the Obodriti
* Martin Kromer, De origine et rebus gestis Polonorum Iibri XXX (1555)
* Mauro Orbini, II regno De gli Slavi Hoggi corrottamente detti Schü-voni... In Pesaro MDCI (1601)
* Monumenta Germaniae Historica... Edidit G.H. Pertz. Tomus I-VI 1826-1844
* Nikolaus Volrab, Chronica von den Antiquiteten des Keisrlichen Stiftes/der Römische Burg und Stadt Marseburg... (Budišin 1556)
* Neuve Chronica Türkischer Nation von Türken selbst beschrieben Frankfurt am Mayn 1590
* Pomponii Melae de Chorographia Iibri tres recognovit Caroli;:- Fnck. Lipsiae 1880
* P.J. Schafariks, Slawische Alterthümer, II, Leipzig 1844
* Heinrich Kunstmann, Über die Herkunft der Polen von Balkan. Die Welt der Slawen, Halbsjahresschrift für Slavistik, Jahrgang XXIX, Heft 2, IV F. VIII, 2. München 1984
* Hana Skalovä, Topografickä mapa üzemi Obodricü a Veletu-Luticu ve svetle mistnfch Jmen. Vznik a pocätky Slovanü. Pracha 1965
* Joan Christopori de Jordan... De originibus Slavicis... Vindobonae MDCCXLV (1745)
* Joannes Simoni Vandalia a 1598. scripta. Mon. Ren germ, praecipue Cimbricarum et Megapolensium... T. I, Lipsiae 1739
* Joannis Bacmeisteri... Animadversiones Genealogico-Chronologico-hi-storico in Mareschalci Thurii Annalium Herulorum et Vandalorum Hbros septem. У збирци: Mon. ined. R.G. praecipue Cimbricarum, et Megapolensium... erui... Ernestus Joachim de Westphalen... Tomus I, Lipisae 1739
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:03 PM
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Byzantine sources report that part of the Serbs (already a Slavic people by that time) then migrated southward in the seventh century and eventually settled in the lands that now make up southern Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, and Herzegovina.
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:09 PM
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ORIGINS OF SABAR AND AVAR
THE FOREFATHERS OF SRB (SERBIAN) AND HRVAT (CROAT) PEOPLE





Classical Sources



In the mid 5th C., Priskos Rhetor was the first to deal with the Avar tribe which existed in the West Siberian region. This supports the theory of origin from the Balkhash region which is further supported by the Chinese records concerning the related Hua tribes. According to Priscos's account, the Avar-Huns forced the Sabirs out of this land and over the Volga around 461-463CE because "a fog rose from the sea scaring people" and this was followed by countless "vultures descending upon the people". Then in 550, Zakharias Rhetor the church historian mentioned an "Avar" community in the west. Also in the mid 6th century, Menandros wrote about Avars. At the same time Procopius made a distinction in his History of the Wars, Books I and II, between White Huns and European Huns which Simokattes in the early half of the 7thC. defines as the real- and pseudo- avars respectively.

Based upon Simokattes's and other information, the Avars who entered Europe are thought to have been a combination of a (Uighur people called Hund(?) and (because of the anthropological evidence as well as etymology on Avar Khagaan names like Bayan meaning "prosperous" in Mongol but meaning female in most western Altaic tongues) a Mongolian people called Var(?) who united around Balk sometime between 410-470CE.





Developments in Central Eurasia



Avars were once equated with the Juan Juan resulting in much confusion as the latter have become frequently referred to as Avars. Though this equation has since proven to be a gross generalisation since the Juan Juan continued to exist after being overthrown by the Asena until 557 while Sarosios was already well established as Khagan of the Avars in Europe by that time. There is, however, evidence that an element of the European Avars may have been, at least for a little while, a small part of the Juan Juan confederacy.

Besides their generally circulated suggestion of their relationship to the Hephthalites, another well-circulated story of more enigmatic origin has it that the Uygurs were conquered by a Mongolian people in the 5th century (see Uar and Hua). Forming a confederation in present Central Eurasia, they tried to survive in the competition with other Turkic tribes (see Juan Juan), by which they were eventually expelled. The survivors of this group of Turkic/Mongol people migrated toward East Europe where they established the Avars Khaganate 502-530CE, starting an era of conquest.

Developments in Central & S.E. Europe

Allies of the Byzantine Empire, they fought against the Slavs and the Bulgars, controlling the area between the Volga River and the Elbe River as far as the Baltic Sea. However, the situation changed resulting in an attempt to invade Italy in 610 and they attacked Constantinople in 619 and 626. The emperor Heraclius, the Bulgars and some Slavic peoples (Croats (Hrvati) and Serbs Срби Srbi) fought them and pushed them to Illyria and in the 630'sCE Khagan Kubrat of the Onoghur became the first Khagan of the second Avar dynasty.

From the late 7th century, writings begin to mention peoples using a 'K-B/V-R' root ethnonym in the same areas inhabited by Avars. The root K-B/V-R has been explained as "rebel" or "mix" as well as "rotate" and "wander". Dissident Kuber Avar-Huns are mentioned migrating southward following a rebellion against the main body of Avars not long after Batbayan-Bezmer succeeded his father Kubrat as Khagan. It may reasonably be deduced that those western Avars who mixed with the Bulgar-Huns and/or severed ties with/rebelled against the main eastern horde in the Caucasus which was under Khazar rule, became known by the 'K-B/V-R' variation of the name.

Little is known about Kabar/Avars from between the late 7th to late 8th centuries except that most of their neighbours still called them Avars. Excavations of their graves have yielded evidence that they were a Mongolian people who carried objects usually associated with Hebraic culture and it has been suggested that their center of control was actually in Khazaria rather than the Ukraine or Pannonia. As Kabarids (or Kavarites) they also seem to have left their ethnonym in certain towns they founded like for example the Kopyrev Konets district of Kiev in the Ukraine which has been explained from their ethnonym. In 791 they invaded Europe once again. The so-called Avar Ring was defeated by Franks led by Charlemagne in the 9th century whereupon the three major tribes invited the Magyar seven-tribe confederacy to liberate them. The three Avar tribes which Magyar sources call Kavar or Kabar (there is no other mention of Avars in original Magyar sources) were settled in Transylvania. Their Szekely descendants preserved the popular Avar Dragon Totem well into the 15th century.

Caucasian Avars and their Language

A connection between the European Avars and the Caucasian Avars and Kabard is severely questioned, but evidence is mounting in favor of the theory that the Avars who settled in Transylvania were only a "pseudo" (Kabar?) portion of other "true" Avars who remained in the Caucasus region under Khazar control. The faction which is supposed to have remained in the Caucasus formed a powerful khanate in the 10th century contributing to the collapse of Khazaria from within that kingdom.



Anthropological Origins



There are three popular points of origin suggested for the Avar peoples one is in the Caucasus as a branch of the Protoiberians, another is in the Hindu Kush around present day Kabul, and another, associating them with the Parni, is the region beyond the Jaxartes (Transiaxartesia) around Lake Balkhash in north-east Kazakhstan. Perhaps a suitable synthesis of these ideas may be that they were originally inhabitants of Khwarezmia and had thus influence in all three areas. The skeletons found in European Avar graves are mostly mongolian [Istvan Erdelyi's "Kabari (Kavari) v Karpatskom Basseyne" specifically page 179 from Sovietskaya Archeologiya 4 (1983)], but many items usually associated with Hebrews have been found with them [A. Scheiber "Jewish inscriptions in Hungary from the 3rd Century to 1686" (1983); V.L.Vikhnovich "From the Jordan to the Dneiper" from Jewish Studies 31 (1991)]. Whether they had some kind of Hebraic origin connected to the quasi-"Jewish" tribes discovered in China and were a major influence in Khazaria or were simply influenced by the alleged Khazar conversion is a question demanding further investigation. Others have described them as "Amerinoid" (?source) loosely described as 'similar to a Mongolian Type with prominent noses'.
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:10 PM
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Name of Sabar



It has been determined through the unorganized information in various foreign resources that this Turkish community had played an important role in the Western Siberia and the northern region of the Caucasus in the 5th-6th centuries DC. This Turkish community was named as Sabar, Sabir, and Savir in the Byzantine resources and as Savır, Sabr, S(a)bir, Sibir, etc. in the Armenian, Syrian Christian, and Islamic resources.



The allegations stating that the Sabar people were of Slav or Mongolian or Finno-Ugrian origin had become out-of-date. Today, it has been understood that they were Turks in origin in respect of the names that they hold and the historical and cultural characteristics. As a result of the labial attraction in various languages, the word of Sabar has been observed in various forms. The word of Sabar that can only be identified with Turkish language was formulated as the addition of the suffix of +ar to the verb of "sab+ar" (=sap-ar= sapmak/ violate, deviate) (Some other examples are: Khazar, Bulgar, Kabar, etc). It has the meaning of "deviationist, defector, uncontrolled, free" and it is in compliance with the naming procedures among the Turks. Furthermore, the personal names pertaining to Sabar people are also Turkish. Balak, İlig-er, Bo-arık =Buğ-arık, etc.
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Old 04-14-2008, 05:02 PM
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Are you happy now?
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Old 05-16-2008, 08:00 AM
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Most Ballkan people are informed that serbs are an inferior race, physical anthropology suggests that this people are infact of none european origin. Carleton Steven Coon (the father of physical anthropology) makes a distinction between serbs and other slavs, in Coons epic work The Races of Europe in chapter XII section 12, proffesor Coon makes this statment:

The Living Slavs

(Chapter XII, section 12)

The Serbs are darker in pigmentation than either the Slovenes or the Croatians; 45 per cent of eyes are pure brown (Martin #2-4), as against 20 per cent which are pure or nearly pure light. Over 55 per cent have black or dark brown hair, while light browns and blonds come to less than 10 per cent. The beards are, of course, often lighter than the head hair. The skin is brown or light-brown in at least a third of the total. It is unlikely that the prevalence of brunet pigmentation among the Serbs came from a Slavic source, and as we shall presently see, the high incidence of dark eyes can hardly be called Dinaric
http://www.snpa.nordish.net/chapter-XII12.htm
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Old 05-16-2008, 09:30 AM
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Crap, as usual.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmusedToDeath View Post
Crap, as usual.
LOL..........reality.....
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Old 05-16-2008, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueAlbo2006 View Post
LOL..........reality.....
Reality is the fact you have to visit a proper institution. Pronto!
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Old 05-17-2008, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmusedToDeath View Post
Reality is the fact you have to visit a proper institution. Pronto!

hahaha..look proper institution? hahahahaahah..have you?
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