Why has no one responded to Sunnyside's critique?

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Ok Savior I will try to respond but honestly I am really tired of responding to these accusations by these Albanian posters simple because they are not even a bit objective. I was not EVEN able to establish the fact that Kosovo was Serbian about 60 days ago (before they self proclaimed it).


I am not sure how many tanks were pinned down or what happened there. To me logical way pof thinking would be that NATO needed few days in order to launch this operation and if Serbs really wanted to cleanse Kosovo from Albanians it would have been enough time.

Why did not Milosevic let NATO troops? Simple, because Serbia is a sovereign country and they did not want other military troops on their soil becasue they knew once they let them in it will be tough and will take a long time to get them out. Say for example Russia. Why they did not let other troops in when they dealt with Chechenya?
Serbia was hoping Russia will interfere if it comes to bombing. At this time Russia did not do anything so Milosevic played a wrong card and lost. He did not really have an option here and he wrongly thought he did.
If you take a look at Bondsteel, the American base in Kosovo you will understand that US from day one wanted to have presence in former Yugoslavia. Serbians denied and payed dearly.

NATO lied about tanks, or if you want to call it a mistake, but they also lied about the number of people (Albanians) that were on the moved. Numbers were in the ballpark of half a million and it was called the biggest ethnic cleansing operation after Hitler. They needed public support and this was a well orchestarted plan which only Milosevic did not see at that time. They were going to bomb Serbia no matter what and just needed reason. Just like Iraq I would add. There was no stopping them. First the media did its jobs and the rest was easy. Now, they say it was about 10 000 Albanians (officaial number) not half a million.

Milosevic specifically asked for Russians peace troops to come in and see what is going on. He only trusted them, but NATO would not have a part of it.

As far as I know, Sunnyside isn't Albanian.

But why would it be relevant either way if his arguments have merit? This is an anonymous forum. For all you know, I'm Albanian too.


Do you understand how this might make outsiders think he had something to hide?

If he really was hiding crimes, how would we know the difference?



Yeah, some Serbains on here are still making that mistake...thinking that Russia loves them or something. Its almost sad.

Russia cares about Russia. They are not going to put themselves at risk for anyone.


Serbians could have simply allowed inspectors in and removed any pretext for war. The US's hands would have been tied.


Lies are deliberate. Mistakes are not. I have seen no evidence that they deliberately misled anyone.


The Serbians could have chosen to let in inspectors and remove all doubt as to what the real numbers were. They chose not to do that. So we were forced to estimate.


Even if that were true, Milosevic could have removed that reason. He had the initiative. He could have preempted the bombing campaign entirely by simply cooperating.


We were unwilling to take the Russians' word for it. As I said, Russia cares about Russia. We didn't consider them neutral.

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At the time of the bombing Russia was struggling themselves so they were not able to help. I completely understand why though. Serbian people are divided as of today. Half of the people want EU, and part wants Russia. I support those who want Russia and do not want to do anything with EU. Russian people are like brothers and sisters to Serbian people. There is genuine love. The solution for Serbia and their people would be true Russian presence in Serbia. A Russian base on Kopaonik, which Nikolic mentioned, which would make Russia have to act in the case of next attack. Serbia would be much safer in my opinion. If you take the reserach that was conducted by University of Belgrade that 70 % of Serbian imports end up in Russia you will understand that Serbia do not need EU. China and Russia will satisfy Serbia's 10 million people export/import needs. They will still be able to cooperate economically with countries from EU (as they are doing now) but with Russia protection they would not have to compromise any more of their land. I hope on May 11 they choose wisely.
EU, on the other hand, wants Kosovo from Serbia and Serbian people will never agree to that. EU bombed Serbia, killed their civilians, destroyed plants, bridges, sanctioned them and did everything they could do aganist them. Now they want to give them a hand?

I never said Sunny Side is Albanian. Don't put words in my mouth. I said Albanian posters but did not name anyone. If you can't make a distinction there is nothing I can help you with there.


You keep repeating that NATO had a reasn for suspicion but you never acknowledged that they LIED about the facts. With todays technology you think that they could not make distinction between 10 000 and half a million????? Also, you did not answer my question. Why NATO did nothing when Russia dealt with Chechenya? Or how about Tibet?

If they only care about Russia why can't you consider them neutral? Aren't you contradicting yourself here a bit?

Because I believe they will spin the facts in whatever way gives them a personal advantage.


Except when it comes to doing more for you than just talking. What have they done for you lately?



And are they doing that? Where is the Russian presence in Serbia?



The EU-friendly portion of Serbia might. You just said yourself that about half your population wants EU membership. If they want it bad enough, they might be willing to compromise by recognizing Kosovo independence.



So what? The US did the exact same thing to Germany and Japan. Now we are allies. Things change.


You implied it.


All I said was that Sunnyside isnt Albanian. I didnt misquote you. Technically, I didnt put words in your mouth.


The reason I didnt acknowledge it is because you have not proved that they lied. At best, you proved that their estimates were wrong.

A mistake is not a lie. A lie requires intent.



It was a guess. Had Milosevic cooperated, they would not have had to guess.


Russia and China are nuclear powers. So interferring in their oppression could potentially start a nuclear war.

Serbia is not a nuclear power. So there is no potential for a nuclear war if we interfere with their oppression.

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LOL where to start!

russia has a less-than-noble motive for opposing a free kosovo, and Serbia has a misguided trust in Russia. Surely Serbs know that the Russians have their own great power motives in exploiting serbian troubles, but the myth does not allow them to acknowledge this.
Serbis lets russia project power and accrue profit in South eastern europe. And as the rest of the eastern block turns towards the west, Russia continues to fuel the big unrealistic myth that it is the protector of serbia!
whatever! carry on decieving yourselves!

Personal opinion. I don't agree with that but you are free to think any way you want.

What exactly are you talking about here?

Serbia has a president that is pro EU. New elections are May 11 and that is when things might change or stay the same.

People of Serbia disagree about whether to join Russia or EU. Every single person is united on Kosovo situation, and nobody supports it or will ever support it.


Then who said that Sunny Side is Albanian. I did not! So from whom exactly were you defending him? Or better yet, why did you have a sudden urge to say that Sunny Side is not Albanian?

I dont have to prove anything to you. You have to sort it out for yourself. You have to decide who to believe. I just wanted to put in your head that there is another side out there as well. You have to think outside of the box.
When you say that I proved that their estimates wer wrong I have to ask you how can you trust them again? They already were wrong one time what makes you think that they won't be wrong again. How about Iraq? Were they wrong there too? When you applied that their estimates werw wrong to me it is like you said well, it is collateral damage. You try and convince the person that lost a family member of a collateral damage.
My point is you can not be wrong in these situations. It is not something that can take it back. I personally don't believe in apologies.


This is not some domestic dispute where a lawyer of one party is trying to prove that the wife deserves the house. Please stop with this. Mistake on this level, a level that requires a bombing of another country is a lie. Period. You tell me how many people suffered consequences of these mistakes. How many of them were fired for their incompetence?



So it is OK to bomb a smaller country, a country that can not defend itself and impose your will on them?

"Then who said that Sunny Side is Albanian. I did not! So from whom exactly were you defending him? Or better yet, why did you have a sudden urge to say that Sunny Side is not Albanian?"

the reason he felt the urge, is that you said you were tired of answering albanian posters, that they were not objective....thereby insinuating that he and others who were pro-KOSOVO in their posts were albanian.
personally I am not albanian....and I feel nationality is irrelevant, I only tell you to convince you that Im not biased by nationality in stating my oppinion.