Another Kosovo thread; no flaming this time

[Kiwi]

Since all the other threads about Kosovo usually start off with something like "Serbia raped women" or "Albanian Terrorists" etc, I thought I'd make this one a little more positive.

The whole purpose of this thread is to debate the merits of either an independent Kosovo, or a Serbian governed Kosovo. Please, no insults about ethnicity, religion etc. I know there are some fair reasons for some of the prejudice, but there is another time and place for that issue. If you can't post without flaming or insulting, don't bother posting here please.

----

I believe that an independent Kosovo would benefit the whole region of the Balkans. If this independence was accepted by both Albanians and Serbians, 90% of the conflict would end. I know it's easy for me to say this; I'm not the Serbian who lost his land, which he is proud of. I didn't lose the right to say "I live in Kosovo, part of the great nation of Serbia." However, I would like to think that if I was a Serbian, my ideals would still be the same as they are now.

Objects in the rear view mirror always appear closer than they are. Humanity naturally looks behind themselves into history, which is always so apparent and emotional. There are many things to look at in history - misconduct of others; hurt done towards friend or family; nationalism to the extent of ethnic cleansing. These are all very valid points in history. But the fact is, he who is ruled by history is doomed to live by it. Things will be the same in the future as they were in history. More revenge, more nationalism, more death, more genocide.

It's very important to acknowledge history, but to choose not to repeat it. The history exists only in thoughts and memories. The future is what will directly effect us. The future can be changed, unlike history. Can you name me a single villain leader that wasn't ruled by the past? Did they look forward to the future, without dwelling on historic matters? Hitler persecuted the Jews because of history - he chose to blame them for the loss of WWI, and for the economic crisis in Germany that followed.

Imagine if Hitler had not sought this false revenge. Imagine that he looked solely at the future and what he could do that would benefit the Germans through peaceful measures. Obviously some evil people like Hitler would not care, and they would always look into the past misdeeds for inspiration in the future.

I am sidetracking too much

My point is, if Serbians and Albanians do not dwell on the past, if they do not dwell on the hurts of the past, the future will not reflect the past. Change is necessary, conscious change that is. In Kosovo, there will be no peace unless we make it so. Serbians could take back the land, and have the land. Albanians would react violently, and there would be another war most likely. Is humanity still at the point in which land is more important than peace?

In the past, land was more important than peace in the eyes of many. "He who desires peace must prepare for war". We used to live under the notion that for a people, for a nation to live in peace, all other peoples and nations must be eradicated or segregated. Do we still live under that notion? Or can we accept that the only humane result for the world is to manage to live side by side.

This post has been longer and more philosophical than I originally intended, sorry.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could tell our grandchildren what war was. I'm not going to be satisfied until Albanians and Serbians are living side by side without any problems.

[Weasel]

I read to my little son standart child tale about Hare.
Hare had a house. Fox asked Hare permition to live with him. In result Hare become homeless.
If serbs will accept losing of Kosovo and will begin to live as if nothing had happen, albanian will cut a new place of Serbia. Now Kosovo is a bound of
Moslems and Christians and also place of alltime war.
If Christians want to stay alive they should forbid immigration from moslim countires.

[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by Weasel

I read to my little son standart child tale about Hare.
Hare had a house. Fox asked Hare permition to live with him. In result Hare become homeless.
If serbs will accept losing of Kosovo and will begin to live as if nothing had happen, albanian will cut a new place of Serbia. Now Kosovo is a bound of
Moslems and Christians and also place of alltime war.
If Christians want to stay alive they should forbid immigration from moslim countires.

Exactly the kind of prejudice I didn't want in this thread.

Dang.

[TrueAlbo2006]

Originally Posted by Weasel

I read to my little son standart child tale about Hare.
Hare had a house. Fox asked Hare permition to live with him. In result Hare become homeless.
If serbs will accept losing of Kosovo and will begin to live as if nothing had happen, albanian will cut a new place of Serbia. Now Kosovo is a bound of
Moslems and Christians and also place of alltime war.
If Christians want to stay alive they should forbid immigration from moslim countires.

Republic of Kosovo is a sovreign, independent and free state.

Long Live Republic of Kosovo.

Im a Christian. What's your point?

[xDonnax]

How can change begin when there is no acknowledgement?! Serbia still continues to behave as if it bears no responsibility.

[AmusedToDeath]

The responsibility is huge upon the Albanian community as well.
Albanians never really tried to assimilate into Yugoslav society and consider themselves Yugoslavs, as every other nation did within the ex-Yugoslavia.
Albanians in Yugoslavia were easy to manipulate from the outside, primarily by their ruthless leader Enver Xohxa who created the myth of a Greater Albania and of some kind of Illyrian origin of Albanians.
The answer of the Serbian authorities upon Milosevic's arrival to power was wrong, he should have chosen different measures.

But then again, considering the terrorist KLA, my opinion is unchangeable: they should have been dealt with by force and annihilated.

Serbia does not wish to govern the Albanians any more. Serbia would gladly accept some sort of a federation or confederation with Kosovo, governed entirely by Albanians.

But they refuse. Why? Because it was never about the "oppression". It was always about the land.

Well then, if it's about the land, then we will never let go of our end of the rope.

[Sadistic-Savior]

But they refuse. Why?

Because under those terms Serbia would still have veto power over them. They would still be on a leash.

That isnt obvious to you?

Well then, if it's about the land, then we will never let go of our end of the rope.

The rope has been severed. The rope you are holding is just dangling in mid air.

[AmusedToDeath]

Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior

The rope has been severed. The rope you are holding is just dangling in mid air.

Perhaps. For now.

[xDonnax]

The responsibility is huge upon the Albanian community as well.

How so? Did the Albanian Kosovars elect Slobodan Milosevic? No they didn't. He was elcted by his own people, the same people that chose to back him up during the war in Kosova in 98-99.

Albanians never really tried to assimilate into Yugoslav society and consider themselves Yugoslavs, as every other nation did within the ex-Yugoslavia.
Albanians in Yugoslavia were easy to manipulate from the outside, primarily by their ruthless leader Enver Xohxa who created the myth of a Greater Albania and of some kind of Illyrian origin of Albanians.

This couldn't be far from the truth. How did you expect the Albanian Kosovars to intergrate into the Yugoslav Federation when they were denied basic human rights.

Serbia has made it clear what her agenda is, she has demonstrated it throughout History- she is only interested in a Kosova i.e Dardania without the Albanians;


Ilija Garasanin: Nacertanije
Vuk Karadzic:Serbs All and Everywhere
Nikola Stojanovic: To Extermination - Ours or Yours
Jovan Cvijic: Selected Statements
Vaso Cubrilovic: Expulsion of the Albanians
Stevan Moljevic: Homogeneous Serbia
Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences: Memorandum 1986.

The answer of the Serbian authorities upon Milosevic's arrival to power was wrong, he should have chosen different measures.

But then again, considering the terrorist KLA, my opinion is unchangeable: they should have been dealt with by force and annihilated.

Serbia does not wish to govern the Albanians any more. Serbia would gladly accept some sort of a federation or confederation with Kosovo, governed entirely by Albanians.

But they refuse. Why? Because it was never about the "oppression". It was always about the land.

Well then, if it's about the land, then we will never let go of our end of the rope.

You have Milosevic and his Chuvinistic regime to thank of the rise of the KLA!

Serbia had all the chances in the world but she blew it, over and over again. There is no trurning back now! Kosova is independent, and Serbia has no-one else to blame but itself and the people she chose.

[xDonnax]

The responsibility is huge upon the Albanian community as well.

How so? Did the Albanian Kosovars elect Slobodan Milosevic? No they didn't. He was elcted by his own people, the same people that chose to back him up during the war in Kosova in 98-99.

Albanians never really tried to assimilate into Yugoslav society and consider themselves Yugoslavs, as every other nation did within the ex-Yugoslavia.
Albanians in Yugoslavia were easy to manipulate from the outside, primarily by their ruthless leader Enver Xohxa who created the myth of a Greater Albania and of some kind of Illyrian origin of Albanians.

This couldn't be far from the truth. How did expect the Albanian Kosovars to intergrate into the Yugoslav Federation when they were denied basic human rights.

Serbia has made it clear what her agenda is, she has demonstrated it throughout History- she is only interested in a Kosova i.e Dardania without the Albanians;


Ilija Garasanin: Nacertanije
Vuk Karadzic:Serbs All and Everywhere
Nikola Stojanovic: To Extermination - Ours or Yours
Jovan Cvijic: Selected Statements
Vaso Cubrilovic: Expulsion of the Albanians
Stevan Moljevic: Homogeneous Serbia
Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences: Memorandum 1986.

The answer of the Serbian authorities upon Milosevic's arrival to power was wrong, he should have chosen different measures.

But then again, considering the terrorist KLA, my opinion is unchangeable: they should have been dealt with by force and annihilated.

Serbia does not wish to govern the Albanians any more. Serbia would gladly accept some sort of a federation or confederation with Kosovo, governed entirely by Albanians.

But they refuse. Why? Because it was never about the "oppression". It was always about the land.

Well then, if it's about the land, then we will never let go of our end of the rope.

By any defenition KLA was a guerrila group. You have Milosevic and his Chuvinistic regime to thank of the rise of the KLA!

Serbia had all the chances in the world but she blew it, over and over again. There is no trurning back now! Kosova is independent, and Serbia has no-one else to blame but itself and the people she chose.