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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 06:59 AM
xDonnax xDonnax is offline
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Amused, you claim that none of this was planned, then explain how 860,000 Albanian Kosovars were able to be 'cleansed' in a matter of 12 weeks?

You also make the claim that the Serb forces were only there to fight the KLA; then explain to me why the majority of those 10, 000 people that were killed were civilians- women, children, elderly, men.

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/kosovo98/timeline.shtml


Moreover, how come that the techniques that were used in Kosova to 'ethnic cleans' the Albanian Kosovars, were like the ones that were used on Croatia and Bosnia?
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 07:02 AM
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They were running away from NATO bombs.

But all of them returned to Kosovo, bringing their families along and multiplying the number of Albanians in Kosovo.

But after the war, and under NATO supervision, Albanian expelled 250,000 non-Albanians. Why don't you explain that to me and stop acting the role of a victim.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 07:17 AM
xDonnax xDonnax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmusedToDeath View Post
You were given autonomy in OUR territory, then you wanted more - you wanted to bite the hand that fed you. That's why he revoked the autonomy.
If 'feed' is a synonym for ' kill/ ethnic cleans/ opress ' then yes, that's what Serbia did.

What the Albanian Kosovars wanted was the same rights as the rest of the federations in Yugoslavia. Hence, the Yugoslav Constitution in 1974, which gave Kosova its autonomy, so it was not illigal in anyway. Vojvodina as well, was given autonomy.


Moreover, it's not just a matter of revoking the autonomy itself, it's the rights , which were given to the Albanian Kosovars that were also taken away.


Kosova itself had become a police state run by Belgrade, where repression, extortion, and human rights were systematicaly abused.

" The deliberate economic and social marginalization of ethnic Albanians forced the emigration of an estimated 350,000 Albanians from the province over the next seven years. While Albanians were being forced to leave, Milosevic's government provided incentives and encouraged the settlement of Serbs in the region. "


http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/kosovo/undword-01.htm



Like I Said, it's clear, what the Chauvinistic regime of Serbia had planned, even before the war broke out. >>> In one way or another, Serbia was going to make a Kosova free from Albanian Kosovars.
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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 07:26 AM
xDonnax xDonnax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmusedToDeath View Post
They were running away from NATO bombs.

But all of them returned to Kosovo, bringing their families along and multiplying the number of Albanians in Kosovo.

But after the war, and under NATO supervision, Albanian expelled 250,000 non-Albanians. Why don't you explain that to me and stop acting the role of a victim.
No, it was NOT due to NATO, but more like a forced expulsion that was well planned and co-ordinated by the Serbs;

Forced Expulsions


The flight of the ethnic Albanian population from Kosovo was executed with a degree of coordination and control that render it impossible to reach any conclusion other than systematic forced expulsion. At least four factors are key in determining that a policy of "ethnic cleansing" was carried out in Kosovo: First is the timing of the refugees' arrival-refugees arrived in Macedonia and Albania from the same areas on the same dates, and at various times (notably during negotiations) the flow of refugees stopped or was switched from one border to another. Second is the means of departure: refugees were expelled into Macedonia by train, which allowed the efficient removal of thousands of persons a day. Others, including many of those sent to Albania who did not have their own transportation, were taken by trucks and buses organized by the Serbian police. Collection points were used to facilitate expulsion. Third is the use of threats and violence to terrorize the population into departing, a central element of "ethnic cleansing," observed frequently during the wars in Bosnia and Croatia. Fourth is the practice of "identity cleansing": refugees expelled toward Albania were frequently stripped of their identity documents and forced to remove the license plates from their cars and tractors before being permitted to cross the border.


Each one of these four factors (the timing of arrivals, the means of departure, the use of terror and the practice of "identity cleansing") strongly suggest that the flight of some 860,000 Albanians from Kosovo in twelve weeks adds up to systematic forced expulsion. Taken together, the evidence is overwhelming.


http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/kosovo/undword-03.htm



As for the thousands that left after the war, they were not victims of a new ' ethnic cleansing'. Many of those that left, left when the Serbian force was forced to pull back. With the Serb forces gone they didn't feel safe to stay, considering that a big number supported Serbia's chauvinistic regime. It's unfortunate

Last edited by xDonnax; 07-04-2008 at 07:27 AM.
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 08:37 AM
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Lets see what Human Rights Watch has to say about you, poor victims:

This one is from 1999:

Quote:

Harassment and Violence Against Serbs and Roma in Kosovo

According to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), more than 164,000 have left Kosovo altogether. Many others have moved to Serb or Roma enclaves under KFOR protection within Kosovo. This report focuses on the wave of arson and looting of Serb and Roma homes throughout Kosovo that has ensued and on the harassment and intimidation, including severe beatings, to which remaining Serbs and Roma have been subjected. Most seriously, there has been a spate of abductions and murders of Serbs since mid-June, including the massacre of fourteen Serb farmers on July 23.

Prominent among explanations for these abuses is the desire of some ethnic Albanians to take revenge for atrocities committed by Serb security forces prior to KFOR's entry into Kosovo. While the Serb minority is the most obvious target of this retaliatory animus, the Roma too are at risk, as they are commonly perceived by ethnic Albanians as having been willing collaborators in Serb abuses. Another related motivation for the abuse is to drive members of these minority groups out of Kosovo. Indeed, numerous Serbs and Roma have told Human Rights Watch that they have been directly warned by ethnic Albanians, under threat of violence, to leave Kosovo and never return.
Quote:
On March 17, at least 33 riots broke out in Kosovo over a 48-hour period, involving an estimated 51,000 protesters. Nineteen people died during the violence. At least 550 homes and 27 Orthodox churches and monasteries were burned, and approximately 4,100 persons from minority communities were displaced from their homes.

Human Rights Watch research found that ethnic Albanian crowds acted with ferocious efficiency to rid many areas in Kosovo of all remaining vestiges of a Serb presence, and also targeted other minority communities, including Roma and Ashkali. In many of the villages affected by the violence, in attacks both spontaneous and organized, every single Serb, Roma or Ashkali home was destroyed.

In the village of Svinjare, all 137 Serb homes were burned, but neighboring ethnic Albanian homes were left untouched. In nearby Vucitrn, all 69 Ashkali homes were destroyed, while in Kosovo Polje, more than 100 Serb and Roma homes were burned, as was the post office, the Serbian school and the Serbian hospital. Even the tiniest Serb presences became targets: in Djakovica ethnic Albanians besieged the Serbian Orthodox Church that housed the town’s remaining Serbs, five elderly women. The women had to be evacuated.
This is who you are, so stop whining. You have too much blood on your hands and no credibility.
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 08:55 AM
xDonnax xDonnax is offline
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Can you provide a link to this?


Although I don't question that non- Albanians were threatened, as the feeling of wanting revenge after the war was normal , they were not victims of a new ethnic cleansing. If they had been, it would have been clear,as the truth can't be hidden.
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xDonnax View Post
That's what Eagleburger thought as well ( in bold ). That it was nothing the outside world could do, untill the ethic groups stopped killing one another in Bosnia.

And that's what happened, the world did not do anything, which resulted in ethnic cleansing and genocide.

If this had taught the world anything, it would be to intervene earlier rather than late; that's what happened in Kosova. The world was not planning on making the same mistake as they did in Bosnia.
Hey, if you can get others to intervene, that's up to you. As for me, I want no part of it. I want the US to stay the hell out of there and everywhere else in the world. What you guys do is your own business and not the US's.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CrusaderRabbit08 View Post
Hey, if you can get others to intervene, that's up to you. As for me, I want no part of it. I want the US to stay the hell out of there and everywhere else in the world. What you guys do is your own business and not the US's.

Well, that's you and your opinion, which you're entitled to of course. But to stand and do nothing, would have lead to something far worse than the genocide in Bosnia.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by xDonnax View Post
Well, that's you and your opinion, which you're entitled to of course. But to stand and do nothing, would have lead to something far worse than the genocide in Bosnia.
The Balkans are in Europe, so it's a European problem to dealt with by Europeans. They can handle quite nicely without US help.
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 07-04-2008, 10:04 AM
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The Balkans are in Europe, so it's a European problem to dealt with by Europeans. They can handle quite nicely without US help.
That argument doesn't fly after WW1 and WW2.
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