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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008, 09:21 AM
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That story dates from 1998. Since that is prior to Kosovo independence, there is no way that the actions of those people could have been sanctioned by the Kosovar government.



This story does not show an attempt by the Kosovar government to ethnically cleanse a Serbian population. The militants were not policemen or soldiers. They were misc terrorists.



This link is an editorial. I don't accept editorials as evidence of anything, even when they agree with me. They are opinion pieces.




Quote:
Independence is inevitable, the Serbs have accepted that. They no longer harbour any illusions that their brothers in Belgrade will ride to the rescue and Russia's pro-Slav talk of brotherhood is seen as rhetoric.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/m.../13/do1304.xml
Heh heh...has anyone told Grond? Apparently I'm not the only one who views Russia's empty "slavic brotherhood" line as crаp.

This link does not show an effort by the elected Kosovar government to exterminate Serbians based on their ethnicity.


Again, this link is not a mainstream new source and is the equivalent of (at best) an editorial. I don't accept it as evidence of anything.


I'm not defending the terrorists in your examples. I am saying you cant hold the Kosovar government responsible for actions that it never sanctioned. By contrast, Slobodan Milosevic was an actual government representative, and used government resources to carry our his crimes.
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by AmusedToDeath View Post
Wait a minute, Donna.... Why don't you tell me who the hell is in power in Kosovo now? THE VERY SAME GUYS THAT COMMITTED THOSE CRIMES! KLA has transformed into KPS, and KLA leaders are Kosovo's prime ministers: Thaci - the Snake and Haradinaj.
Sure thing Amused, with pleasure. Those who are in power are, Fatmir Sejdiu and Hashim Thaci.

First off, Hashim Thaci was NOT indicted of war crimes. So for you to sit there and claim that he is responsible for something he didn't do is just nonsense. During the time of negotiations at Ramboulliet and during the war, he was the spokes person for the KLA. As far as Haradinaj goes ( he's not the PM btw), he was indicted of war crimes, but was found not guilty on all 37 counts.

If Thaci had been the "thug" that you claim he is, he wouldn't have been where he is today; there would have been international indictments or warrants from interpol. Not to mention all the international presence the past years in Kosova.


As for KLA itself goes, it was not transformed to KPS. But after the demilitarization, the KLA was transformed into KPC- which was a proposal by UNMIK and KFOR.

Both the KPC and KPS requires that you have a ; " No substantiated history of war crimes or criminal conduct (excluding minor traffic violations, juvenile offences or political crimes) "

http://www.civpol.org/unmik/KPS.htm
http://www.unmikonline.org/1styear/kpcorps.htm

Last edited by xDonnax; 07-07-2008 at 09:45 AM. Reason: links
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008, 12:04 PM
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Sadistic, there is no government in Kosovo. The government is and has been - UN, the army is and has been since 1999 - KFOR (NATO). You don't expect them to commit ethnic cleansing, do you?

The KLA terrorists now work as police officers in the KPS. The KLA terrorist war time leaders are now the leading politicians in Kosovo.

Kosovo is a NATO experiment.
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:12 PM
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Sadistic, there is no government in Kosovo. The government is and has been - UN, the army is and has been since 1999 - KFOR (NATO). You don't expect them to commit ethnic cleansing, do you?
Yes, a government does exist in Kosova. Reality has its own language.



Quote:
The KLA terrorists now work as police officers in the KPS. The KLA terrorist war time leaders are now the leading politicians in Kosovo.
By any definition, the KLA was a guerrilla group.

Moreover, the KLA it was not transformed to KPS. But after the demilitarization, the KLA was transformed into KPC- which was a proposal by UNMIK and KFOR.

Both the KPC and KPS requires that you have a ; " No substantiated history of war crimes or criminal conduct (excluding minor traffic violations, juvenile offences or political crimes) "

http://www.civpol.org/unmik/KPS.htm
http://www.unmikonline.org/1styear/kpcorps.htm

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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Sadistic, there is no government in Kosovo.
Then what is this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Kosovo



Quote:
The government is and has been - UN, the army is and has been since 1999 - KFOR (NATO).
The current leaders were elected - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Kosovo



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Kosovo is a NATO experiment.
If you say so. Not sure how that changes anything I have said.
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sadistic-Savior View Post
Then what is this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Kosovo




The current leaders were elected - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Kosovo




If you say so. Not sure how that changes anything I have said.
I know that you can differ facts from form. If one man (that being the "the special representative of UN for Kosovo") can annul any act of a government or a parliament, that is not a government nor a parliament. You know that.
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  #147 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xDonnax View Post
By any definition, the KLA was a guerrilla group.

Moreover, the KLA it was not transformed to KPS. But after the demilitarization, the KLA was transformed into KPC- which was a proposal by UNMIK and KFOR.

Both the KPC and KPS requires that you have a ; " No substantiated history of war crimes or criminal conduct (excluding minor traffic violations, juvenile offences or political crimes) "
Donna, don't be funny, please. Both you and me know this is complete nonsense.


Quote:
KLA rebels train in terrorist camps
By Jerry Seper, THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Some members of the Kosovo Liberation Army, which has financed its war effort through the sale of heroin, were trained in terrorist camps run by international fugitive Osama bin Laden -- who is wanted in the 1998 bombing of two U.S. embassies in Africa that killed 224 persons, including 12 Americans.
The KLA members, embraced by the Clinton administration in NATO's 41-day bombing campaign to bring Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic to the bargaining table, were trained in secret camps in Afghanistan, Bosnia-Herzegovina and elsewhere, according to newly obtained intelligence reports.
The reports also show that the KLA has enlisted Islamic terrorists -- members of the Mujahideen --as soldiers in its ongoing conflict against Serbia, and that many already have been smuggled into Kosovo to join the fight.
Known to its countrymen as the Ushtria Clirimatare e Kosoves, the KLA has as many as 30,000 members, a number reportedly on the rise as a result of NATO's continuing bombing campaign. The group's leadership, including Agim Ceku, a former Croatian army brigadier general, has rapidly become a political and military force in the Balkans.
The intelligence reports document what is described as a "link" between bin Laden, the fugitive Saudi
-- Continued from Front Page --
millionaire, and the KLA --including a common staging area in Tropoje, Albania, a center for Islamic terrorists. The reports said bin Laden's organization, known as al-Qaeda, has both trained and financially supported the KLA.
Many border crossings into Kosovo by "foreign fighters" also have been documented and include veterans of the militant group Islamic Jihad from Bosnia, Chechnya and Afghanistan. Many of the crossings originated in neighboring Albania and, according to the reports, included parties of up to 50 men.
Jane's International Defense Review, a highly respected British Journal, reported in February that documents found last year on the body of a KLA member showed that he had escorted several volunteers into Kosovo, including more than a dozen Saudi Arabians. Each volunteer carried a passport identifying him as a Macedonian Albanian.
Bin Laden and his military commander, Mohammed Atef, were named in a federal indictment handed up in November in New York for the simultaneous explosions Aug. 7 at the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. The indictment accused the two men of directing the attacks, which injured more than 5,000 people.
The indictment said bin Laden, working through al-Qaeda, forged alliances with government officials in Iran, the National Islamic Front in the Sudan and an Iranian terrorist organization known as Hezbollah. He was indicted earlier this year by a federal grand jury in New York for his suspected terrorist activities.
The al-Qaeda is believed to have targeted U.S. embassies and American soldiers stationed in Saudi Arabia and Somalia. The organization also is accused of housing and training terrorists, and of raising money to support their causes.
The State Department, along with other federal agencies, offered a $5 million reward last year for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the two men. Mr. Clinton ordered a retaliatory attack on training bases controlled by bin Laden in Afghanistan and a chemical factory near Khartoum, Sudan, after the bombings.
Last year, while State Department officials labeled the KLA a terrorist organization, saying it bankrolled its operations with proceeds from the heroin trade and from loans from known terrorists like bin Laden, the department listed the group as an "insurgency" organization in its official reports. The officials charged that the KLA used terrorist tactics to assault Serbian and ethnic Albanian civilians in a campaign to achieve independence.
The KLA's involvement in drug smuggling as a means of raising funds for weapons is long-standing. Intelligence documents show it has aligned itself with an extensive organized crime network in Albania that smuggles heroin to buyers throughout Western Europe and the United States. Drug agents in five countries believe the cartel is one of the most powerful heroin smuggling organizations in the world.
The documents show heroin and some cocaine is moved over land and sea from Turkey through Bulgaria, Greece and Yugoslavia to Western Europe and elsewhere. The circuit has become known as the "Balkan Route."
The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration said in a recent report that drug smuggling organizations composed of Kosovo's ethnic Albanians were considered "second only to Turkish gangs as the predominant heroin smugglers along the Balkan Route."
Greek Interpol representatives have called Kosovo's ethnic Albanians "the primary sources of supply for cocaine and heroin in that country."
France's Geopolitical Observatory of Drugs said the KLA was a key player in the rapidly expanding drugs-for-arms business and helped transport $2 billion in drugs a year into Western Europe.
German drug agents said $1.5 billion in drug profits is laundered annually by Kosovo smugglers, through as many as 200 private banks or currency-exchange offices.
Jane's Intelligence Review estimated in March that drug sales could have netted the KLA profits in the "high tens of millions of dollars." It said the KLA had rearmed itself for a spring offensive with the aid of drug money, along with donations from Albanians in Western Europe and the United States.
This is Kosovo's Protection Corps - formed by NATO. NATO is supporting terrorists, and Kosovo is just a failed NATO experiment of a country.
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2008, 05:44 PM
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Written: May, 2000

"(There is a growing tendency among foreign observers) to identify the criminal with the honest, the vandal with the civilized, the Mafiosi with the nation.''
Former Albanian President Sali Berisha

"They were terrorists in 1998 and now, because of politics, they're freedom fighters."
Jerry Seper, quoting an anonymous "top drug official" who refers to a 1998 State Department report, in the article "KLA Finances War with Heroin Sales", Washington Times, May 3, 1999

"The Albanian villages are much better, much richer than the Serbian ones. The Serbs, even the rich ones, don't build fine houses in villages where there are Albanians. If a Serb has a two-story house he refrains from painting it so that it shan't look better than the Albanian houses."
Leon Trotsky, War Correspondent for "Pravda", reporting from the Balkan Wars, 1912-3

"When spring comes, we will manure the plains of Kosovo with the bones of Serbs, for we, Albanians, have suffered too much to forget."
Isa Boletini, leaving the Ambassadors Conference in London, 1913

"Instead of using their authority and impartiality to restrain terrorist gangs of Albanian extremists, we face the situation in which the terrorism is taking place under their auspices, and even being financed by United Nations means."
Milosevic, March 2000 (one of rare situations I agree with him)

"Getting history wrong is an essential part of being a nation."
Ernest Renan, French historian

"We spent the 1990's worrying about a Greater Serbia. That's finished. We are going to spend time well into the next century worrying about a Greater Albania."
Christopher Hill, Ambassador to Macedonia, 1999

"There is no excuse for that, even if the Serbs in Kosovo are very angry. I accept responsibility. One of the most important tasks of a democracy is to protect its minorities."
Milosevic to Ambassador Hill who reported to him about atrocities in Kosovo

"I am like a candle. I am melting away slowly, but I light the way for others."
Adem Demaci, political representative of the KLA
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  #149 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2008, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmusedToDeath View Post
Written: May, 2000

"(There is a growing tendency among foreign observers) to identify the criminal with the honest, the vandal with the civilized, the Mafiosi with the nation.''
Former Albanian President Sali Berisha

"They were terrorists in 1998 and now, because of politics, they're freedom fighters."
Jerry Seper, quoting an anonymous "top drug official" who refers to a 1998 State Department report, in the article "KLA Finances War with Heroin Sales", Washington Times, May 3, 1999

"The Albanian villages are much better, much richer than the Serbian ones. The Serbs, even the rich ones, don't build fine houses in villages where there are Albanians. If a Serb has a two-story house he refrains from painting it so that it shan't look better than the Albanian houses."
Leon Trotsky, War Correspondent for "Pravda", reporting from the Balkan Wars, 1912-3

"When spring comes, we will manure the plains of Kosovo with the bones of Serbs, for we, Albanians, have suffered too much to forget."
Isa Boletini, leaving the Ambassadors Conference in London, 1913

"Instead of using their authority and impartiality to restrain terrorist gangs of Albanian extremists, we face the situation in which the terrorism is taking place under their auspices, and even being financed by United Nations means."
Milosevic, March 2000 (one of rare situations I agree with him)

"Getting history wrong is an essential part of being a nation."
Ernest Renan, French historian

"We spent the 1990's worrying about a Greater Serbia. That's finished. We are going to spend time well into the next century worrying about a Greater Albania."
Christopher Hill, Ambassador to Macedonia, 1999

"There is no excuse for that, even if the Serbs in Kosovo are very angry. I accept responsibility. One of the most important tasks of a democracy is to protect its minorities."
Milosevic to Ambassador Hill who reported to him about atrocities in Kosovo

"I am like a candle. I am melting away slowly, but I light the way for others."
Adem Demaci, political representative of the KLA

In case you want to look at history, why dont you bring us Cubrilovic and such? not some inci pincy words put together with no source? He made serbia into the real bloodthirsty war machine that lost it all.
Kosovo is free and ruled by free men, all your old links are only toilet paper for the wc= irrelevant.
Kosovo is not threatening or interfering with the serbian state and its functions. So please do not interfere and or threaten Kosovo next time.
You do not share anything in common, you look east towards Asia, Kosovo looks west. Serbs make the smallest minority in compared to Croatia Bosnia and Montenegro, are Serbians mad that Kosovo has its own culture and language? Not some Baltic slavic language that started in the siberian mountains? Serbia is just another copy of other slavic states, russian sponsored to get to warm waters. Remember amused that the wholly serbian place became Scodra in WW1 just because of the port? Serbs since then became beasts with out morals, criminals with out orders, butchers, rapists, thief's, Killers.
And thats were they stayed mentally, because there is no serbia, there is a distorted collective image of serbia, like fascists you need constant wars to keep unification. Serbia is the oly country in EU to start 4 wars loose all and sill threaten. Serbian state threats are empty, not only that they dont materialise but serbians kill each other, beat mug and rape each other. Kosovo does not need that and you too dear serbian poster.

But don't worry, people will see you how you saw them.

Pace
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Last edited by Adriano; 07-08-2008 at 12:16 AM.
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  #150 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2008, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by AmusedToDeath View Post
Donna, don't be funny, please. Both you and me know this is complete nonsense.
Please, speak only for yourself, Amused.


You are posting an article that is from 99, which showes no credible evidence. All this talk about Bin Laden and Al- Qaeda is just utter nonsense. If there had been any credability in what this article is saying, Kosova wouldn't be where it is today- considering the " War on terror ". Moreover, if Thaci and their likes are the " thugs" you claim them to be, where's the international indictments or warrants from Interpol?



Quote:
This is Kosovo's Protection Corps - formed by NATO. NATO is supporting terrorists, and Kosovo is just a failed NATO experiment of a country.
The claim of a " terrorist " hotbed in Kosova is pathetic. Real intellectual leaders have visited and worked there and it should not come as a surprise why ALL MAJOR civilized nations immediately recognized its independence. Its because, unlike you, they know that Kosova, unlike Serbia, is truly pro-western and built on democratic ideals.



Further more, the formation of the KLA was after the demilitarization, which was a proposal from UNMIK and KFOR, and not NATO.


NOW, both the KPC and KPS requires that you have a ; " No substantiated history of war crimes or criminal conduct (excluding minor traffic violations, juvenile offences or political crimes) "

http://www.civpol.org/unmik/KPS.htm
http://www.unmikonline.org/1styear/kpcorps.htm


Reality as its own language. =)
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