This is what happens here at a Political Forum, we argue the relative benifits of different political systems.


I believe a Nation such as Russia does not have a truely Democratic system, with a free-market economy, no freedom of the press or independent Judiciary, with corruption rife throughout all levels of society ia a bad system and I dare tell you that!

I also think you should get over it and maybe think on a little to how the RussiaToday State run media outlet effects your perceptions of just what political direction Russia is heading. But you must already know that Russians have a totalitarian mentality.

Yet - I hope one day the people of Russia will achieve better.

What are you now, a psychologist? Explain, support your claim.

lunecat, I sked you a question - what do you mean by "Russia must know her place"?

And?.....



07/ 07/ 2008


SUKHUMI, July 7 (RIA Novosti) - The foreign ministry of Georgia's breakaway province of Abkhazia urged the international community to help in the fight against terrorism in the region on Monday following the death of four people in a blast.
Abkhazia is claiming that Georgia is responsible for a series of explosions that have rocked the self-proclaimed region since June 30. The most recent blast hit a cafe Sunday in the town of Gali, on the Georgian-Abkhaz border killing four and injuring six.

Abkhazia's foreign ministry said in a statement, to the UN, G8 and OSCE, "Ignoring such serious provocations could lead to an irreversible escalation in the Georgian-Abkhaz conflict."
Abkhazia's ministry said that the international community's silence is an indication of their indirect support for terrorism and puts into question the objectivity of international mediators in finding a political settlement to the conflict in the region.
The foreign ministry statement said that "the leadership of Georgia has been openly supporting terrorism" for 15 years, stating that Levan Mamasakhlisi, considered a terrorist by Abkhazia, had received awards from Georgia's President Mikheil Saakashvili.

The ministry said that the international community was turning a blind eye to the evident human rights violations and "the policy of terror" against Abkhazia and another breakaway republic of South Ossetia.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20080707/113441472.html

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War between Russia and Georgia orchestrated from USA

READ MORE -- http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/co...ssia_georgia-0

The republic of South Assetia has the very same problem. It's tring to break free from Georgia.

South Ossetia (Ossetian: Хуссар Ирыстон, Khussar Iryston; Georgian: სამხრეთ ოსეთი, Samkhret Oseti; Russian: Южная Осетия, Yuzhnaya Osetiya) is a region in the South Caucasus, formerly the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast within the Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic, part of which has been de facto independent from Georgia since its declaration of independence as the Republic of South Ossetia during the Georgian-Ossetian conflict early in the 1990s. Its independence has not been diplomatically recognized by any United Nations member-state –which continue to regard South Ossetia as part of Georgia. Georgia has retained control over parts of the region's eastern and southern districts where it created, in April 2007, a Provisional Administrative Entity of South Ossetia) headed by ethnic Ossetians (former members of the separatist government) which would negotiate with central Georgian authorities regarding its final status and conflict resolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia

Seven Unidentified Jets Spotted in South Ossetia

Seven unidentified jets were seen flying during the night attack on Tskhinvali, RIA Novosti reported with reference to Vladimir Ivanov, who is the aid to commander of Joint Peacekeeping Forces in the Georgia-South Ossetia’s conflict area. Past night, Georgia brought down fire on South Ossetia in three directions, attacking its capital Tskhinvali and Ubiat and Dmenis villages. One man was killed, three injured in time of shooting. “The peacekeepers’ outposts recorded seven flights of the aircraft from 1:10 a.m. to 5:00 a.m., Friday, – two Su-25 jets at 4:47 a.m. and the spying drones in the remaining cases. The contingent of peacekeepers was put into combat readiness,” Ivanov said. The breakaway republic of Georgia, South Ossetia is seeking the independence recognition, but Georgia is ready to grant only the wide autonomy to it. The joint contingent of peacekeepers that consists of three battalions (Russian, Georgian and North Ossetia’s, 500 servicemen each) secures peace in the conflict area.

Source: http://www.kommersant.com/p-12770/r_...ssetia_attack/

It seems like Georgia is trying to start a war and with South Assetia too....

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War between Russia and Georgia orchestrated from USA

READ MORE -- http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/co...ssia_georgia-0

http://www.russiatoday.com/news/news/27084

http://gadfly.igc.org/liberal/2lessons.htm

Will they learn their lesson? Maybe they will, its not looking likely though ...

I think this is a bit absurd. The Georgians have as much claim over Abkhazia as we do over Ossetia. If we all wanted to go back to our former borders the world would be unrecognizable.

The RussiaToday is not a credible news source - it is a State controlled media outlet for the Russian Oligarchs.

Check out the "Freedom of te Press"
http://www.freedomhouse.org/template.cfm?page=16

There is no press freedom in Russia - you have fallen for their propoganda.


You don't seem to understand the joy of freedom - you are just a loyal kholop of the Russian State

It is Georgian land - its just that the Russians left their trash behind when their communist empire collapsed and Georgia became free from their oppression.

Maybe we should ask: WHO is started the that dirty-FASCIST war? Who? Who said “if 100,000 Georgian lose their lives, then [on the Abkhazian side] all 97,000 will be killed”; and that “the Abkhaz Nation will be left without descendants.”? Who wanted destroy-kill all Abkhazia with Abkhazians? Who wanted to destroy Abkhazian history? And now who is saying SORRY!!!?
See: http://www.humanrights.ge/index.php?...d=1546&lang=en


Lets see a Graphic: Demographic change in Abkhazia. See: http://www.c-r.org/our-work/accord/g...zia/graph2.php

The mass-immigration of Kartvelians (mostly Mingrelians) goes back to the late 1930s. Abkhaz's script was then altered from a roman to a Georgian base. Abkhaz-language schools were summarily closed in 1945-6, following by a ban on broadcasting and publications. The Abkhazians as a nation were due to face transportation (like the numerous other peoples transported by Stalin from the Koreans in the late 1930s through to Abkhazia's Greeks in the late 1940s), and, as a 'scholarly' justification for that, the literary-historian Pavle Ingoroqva was commissioned to argue in print that the Abkhazians only arrived in Abkhazia in the 17th century, conquering the 'original' Abkhazians of history, who were thus a 'Georgian' tribe. This calumny was revived in the heady days of Georgian nationalism from 1988 AND IS WIDELY BELIEVED BY MANY ORDINARY KARTVELIANS, who for this reason still regard the Abkhazians as unentitled to be living in Abkhazia. The Georgian general leading the invading forces in the autumn of 1992, Gia Qarqarashvili, stated on TV that he would sacrifice 100,000 Georgians to kill all 93,000 Abkhazians, if that is what it took to keep Georgia's borders inviolate', and a similar threat came from the head of Georgia's wartime administration, Giorgi Khaindrava, on the pages of Le Monde Diplomatique in April 1993. If you were an Abkhazian, would you welcome back your former Kartvelian neighbours, knowing how many of them think Abkhazians should not be in Abkhazia?

And it was no accident that the Abkhazian research-institute and archives were torched (after cherry-picking) in Nov 1992 -- it was done to try to erase documentary proof of the Abkhazians' presence over the centuries (not to say millennia) on Abkhazian soil.

I w'd like to add again a little piece from Sam Topalidis' book. ''A Pontic Greek History''

Ascherson (1,1995, pp. 253-4), describes how the State Archives building was destroyed during the civil war in Abkhazia (trying to gain its autonomy from Georgia).

One day in the winter of 1992, a white Lada without number-plates, containing four men from the Georgian National Guard, drew up outside. The guardsmen shot the door open and then flung incendiary grenades into the hall and stairwel. … Sukhum citizens tried vainly to break through the cordon and enter the building to rescue burning boks and papers. … The archives also contained the entire documentation of the Grek community, including a library, a collection of historical research from all the Grek villages of Abkhazia and complete files of the Grek language newspapers going back to the first years after the revolution. A PONTIC GREEK HISTORY by Sam Topalidis, 2007 - Australia - p.140

Also, when it comes to the fate of refugees and their right to return home, what is to be said of those Abkhazian descendants (over 300,000) of those more or less forced to leave Abkhazia, when it was populated virtually exclusively by Abkhazians, in 1864?


For some 60 years Abkhazia was forced to accept the unwelcome status of being a mere autonomous republic with Soviet Georgia (thanks to the ruling of the Georgian dictator Stalin – ‘Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili’). For daring to defend our interests in the face of Georgian nationalist aggression, we were subjected to 14 months of savagery. In alliance with our allies from the Abkhazian diaspora or Abkhazians’ cousins in the North Caucasus, we succeeded in ejecting the invader and winning the war. All that Georgia under its various leaders/governments has been willing to offer us by way of a settlement is a return to the ‘status quo ante’— the sudden offer by Misha Saakashvili of asymmetric federation produced on the eve of the recent NATO summit in Bucharest was clearly aimed more at impressing the Western alliance than at appealing to Sukhum. How many examples are there in history where a people after being invaded, losing 4% of their population, and yet finally winning the war have meekly resigned themselves to accepting the selfsame subordinate status they had before the tragedy of a war inflicted upon them? This is something that the Georgian side and their international backers (who have no interest in the fate of minorities but think solely of the ‘big picture’ of preserving territorial integrity, of finding allies in an unstable part of the world, and of securing the flow of oil) would do well to remember. The Georgians lost Abkhazia in 1993. They should be told by their EU, NATO and US ‘friends’ to accept this fact, find a ‘modus vivendi’ with their neighbours (big and small alike), and then contribute to the creation of stability and prosperity for the Caucasus region as whole. We can all then get on with our lives in the peace that we all deserve.


As Lakoba's says my friend: Today some people say that Abkhazia is Russia, others that it is Georgia, while the fact is that Abkhazia is Abkhazia. And at the end of the 20th and start of the 21st century we want to preserve our own identity and keep our own face for the simple reason that it is ours, even if somebody else may not find it to their liking.

Georgian Apologists (at home and abroad) by George Hewitt http://www.circassianworld.com/News/Socor_Geo.html

Abkhazia's Liberation and International Law by E. K. Adzhindzhal, Sukhum, 2007 http://www.circassianworld.com/Abkhazia_Liberation.html

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Bonus

Documentary Gives Alternative Version of Polling Day Shooting http://www.civil.ge/eng/article.php?id=18611

The Georgian president accused of manipulation, Le Figaro http://circassianworld.blogspot.com/...ccused-of.html