Why does America support the dictatorship in Georgia? - Page 2

Kenny · #11 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby

Republicans dispise the redistribution of wealth because it is socialism and against the 5th amendment! Taking the happyness away from one man in order to give it to another is everything our founding fathers stood against! They spoke of life liberty and the persuit of happyness. Not the guarentee of happyness at the expence of others!
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Obviously, thats not true in Alabama, which is highly Republican. The Republican Governor time and time again has announced his support for more economic aid to farmers and they continue to re-elect him. Its more about poor and rich then it is about Republican & Democrat. Those who are middle class and rich, obviously, don't wish to be taxed. Those who are poor, obviously, wish for help. When someone farm gets foreclosed, you actually think they would turn down or not ask for available government aid simply because they are Republican. Lets not be naive about how human nature and society works. Anyway, I am not trying to go off topic so soon. This is about US foreign relations of dictatorial states, not party policies.

White Fox · #12 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny

Obviously, thats not true in Alabama, which is highly Republican. The Republican Governor time and time against has announced his support for more economic aid to farmers and they continue to re-elect him. Its more about poor and rich then it is about Republican & Democrat. Those who are middle class and rich, obviously, don't wish to be taxed. Those who are poor, obviously, wish for help. When someone farm gets foreclosed, you actually think they would turn down or not ask for available government aid simply because they are Republican. Lets not be naive about how human nature and society works. Anyway, I am not trying to go off topic so soon. This is about US foreign relations of dictatorial states, not party policies.

Toby should have said that "Conservatives....." rather than Republicans.

Toby · #13 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

Toby should have said that "Conservatives....." rather than Republicans.

Thanks for the correction! you know me too well!

Toby · #14 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny

Obviously, thats not true in Alabama, which is highly Republican. The Republican Governor time and time against has announced his support for more economic aid to farmers and they continue to re-elect him. Its more about poor and rich then it is about Republican & Democrat. Those who are middle class and rich, obviously, don't wish to be taxed. Those who are poor, obviously, wish for help. When someone farm gets foreclosed, you actually think they would turn down or not ask for available government aid simply because they are Republican. Lets not be naive about how human nature and society works. Anyway, I am not trying to go off topic so soon. This is about US foreign relations of dictatorial states, not party policies.

Sorry I substitued conservatives with the word republican. However you cant justify a wrong with what you consider to be another wrong. It is not hypicritical on my part when a republican takes a liberal stance for political expediancy. However your comparison is still invalid because the redistribution of wealth is wrong no matter who supports it! Would you not agree?

Kenny · #15 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:08 PM

Quote:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

The U. S. Constitution doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself.
Benjamin Franklin

There are two ways of being happy: We must either diminish our wants or augment our means - either may do - the result is the same and it is for each man to decide for himself and to do that which happens to be easier.
Benjamin Franklin

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
Benjamin Franklin

Mine is better than ours.
Benjamin Franklin

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.
Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson

Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.
Thomas Jefferson

Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others?
Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Thomas Jefferson

It's not tyranny we desire; it's a just, limited, federal government.
Alexander Hamilton

The rights of persons, and the rights of property, are the objects, for the protection of which Government was instituted.
James Madison

No power on earth has a right to take our property from us without our consent.
John Jay

Benjamin Franklin: Helped Draft the Declaration of Independance
Thomas Jefferson: Wrote the Declaration Of Independance
Alexander Hamilton/James Madison/John Jay: Wrote the Federalist Papers

Both you and I know that the Republican base has largely neglected the ideologies and philosophy of the Founding Fathers and the ancient Republicans. The Republican party which is in existence at the moment is in no way representing Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay views on how this nation should be ran. Ron Paul is probably the closest thing to a original Republican thats in the Republican party and he a racist Constitutionalist.

Apart from the current day Republicans being so different from the Founding Fathers, I can care less what the Found Fathers thought or their philosophy. The Founding Fathers were hypocrites. They talked about human rights and dignity, but at the same time they slaved Africans and displaced millions of Native Americans. They committed genocide to sum it up. The Founding Fathers actions contradicts the Constitution and if they were still living today they should be tried for treason.

White Fox · #16 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny

Both you and I know that the Republican base has largely neglected the ideologies and philosophy of the Founding Fathers and the ancient Republicans. The Republican party which is in existence at the moment is in no way representing Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay views on how this nation should be ran. Ron Paul is probably the closest thing to a original Republican thats in the Republican party and he a racist Constitutionalist.

Apart from the current day Republicans being so different from the Founding Fathers, I can care less what the Found Fathers thought or their philosophy. The Founding Fathers were hypocrites. They talked about human rights and dignity, but at the same time they slaved Africans and displaced millions of Native Americans. They committed genocide to sum it up. The Founding Fathers actions contradicts the Constitution and if they were still living today they should be tried for treason.

The true founding fathers rejected slavery. It was necessary to tolerate it, however, to have the constitution or even the country to exist. Otherwise, there would never have been an American country, or an American constitution that at least recognizes liberty as ideal.

There are some really great articles on the subject available, you just have to look for some. Here's one.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=122

Kenny · #17 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby

Sorry I substitued conservatives with the word republican. However you cant justify a wrong with what you consider to be another wrong. It is not hypicritical on my part when a republican takes a liberal stance for political expediancy. However your comparison is still invalid because the redistribution of wealth is wrong no matter who supports it! Would you not agree?

No, I don't believe that helping the poor at the cost of the wealth is wrong, but I believe that it should be more regulated. There are people, such as Bill Gates, who has more money then he can spend or need, while there are many people barely making it in the United States. At the same time, some of those people who are collecting government aid, refuse to look for a job and better themselves. I support financially helping poor farmers or single mothers, but there should be more regulations to prevent abuse. I see it first hand that some people actually abuse the system by intentionally remaining unemployed and lying about their income. I hear it in the barbershops and at barbecues from people who were accepted for government aid admitting to lying about their income to get welfare to those who were rejected and even encouraging the people who were rejected to go back and lie. My aunt was actually caught cheating the system a while back and she had to repay the welfare she received. So to sum this up, I support the government helping the poor, but make sure you helping a person who really needs the help and is not simply looking for an handout. I believe that if we actually put the proper regulations in place, we could cut social spending in half. Yes, there are a lot of people cheating the system at the cost of the rich and middle class.

Toby · #18 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny

Both you and I know that the Republican base has largely neglected the ideologies and philosophy of the Founding Fathers and the ancient Republicans. The Republican party which is in existence at the moment is in no way representing Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay views on how this nation should be ran. Ron Paul is probably the closest thing to a original Republican thats in the Republican party and he a racist Constitutionalist.

Apart from the current day Republicans being so different from the Founding Fathers, I can care less what the Found Fathers thought or their philosophy. The Founding Fathers were hypocrites. They talked about human rights and dignity, but at the same time they slaved Africans and displaced millions of Native Americans. They committed genocide to sum it up. The Founding Fathers actions contradicts the Constitution and if they were still living today they should be tried for treason.

That doesent make the redistribution of welth right now does it? Were talking about conservatives not republicans! the fact of the matter is that taking money away from one man to give to another is a violation of our rights. And our founding fathers knew this!

Kenny · #19 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby

That doesent make the redistribution of welth right now does it? Were talking about conservatives not republicans! the fact of the matter is that taking money away from one man to give to another is a violation of our rights. And our founding fathers knew this!

Is allowing hardworking Americans to suffer when you have extra money lying around right? Is that not what we call greed?

Kenny · #20 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

The true founding fathers rejected slavery. It was necessary to tolerate it, however, to have the constitution or even the country to exist. Otherwise, there would never have been an American country, or an American constitution that at least recognizes liberty as ideal.

There are some really great articles on the subject available, you just have to look for some. Here's one.

http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=122

Thanks for the reference, ill be sure to look over it later.

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