Last battle of the cold war

f100supersabr · #1 (**permalink**) 11-27-2004, 12:50 PM

It may be fitting that Ukraine once called the cornerstone of the Soviet Empire is the scene of the last battle of the cold war. The Soviet Union may be 'gone' but the 'Soviet' mind still is alive in Russia, and Russia has not psychologically accepted the fact that Ukraine is independent. With the help of traitors in Ukraine Russian oligarchs have amassed large holdings of Ukrainian industry and they believed that the only way to keep that power was to control who will be the next president of Ukraine.

Vyktor Yushchenko a pro west candidate ran against the pro Russian candidate Vyktor Yanushkovych and the current Kuchma government with the help of Russia fixed the results of the election but Yushchenko's people, EU, and the west caught them.

Vyktor Yushchenko a pro west candidate wants Ukraine to become a normal European country but Russia fears that and has tried to defeat him and get a stooge into office so that part of Russia's attempt to rebuild their empire.

Europe and the U.S. must use all means available short of war or outright interference to stop Russia. Russia must never again be allowed to become a superpower. We must stop any attempts to rebuilt Russia. In fact the only way to assure that Russia does not bounce back is to stealtfully
cause instability within Russia itself. We should help foment rebellion in Siberia, Chechenya, Tatarshchyna; anywhere there is weakness we should create further strife for Russia. If we can keep them busy they will not be able to cause trouble for European countries such as Ukraine, or Poland etc. I realize that this sounds harsh but we never really completely won the cold war and we will not until Russia is no longer capable of causing problems to any of it's neighbors.

Personally I would like to dismantle Russia into 1000 pieces but the reality is that :
1- they have nukes and that would be dangerous
2- we need someone on China's flank

So we need to keep Russia off balance and in relatively one piece as long as it is useful for us..

all-is-woe · #2 (**permalink**) 11-28-2004, 10:30 AM

Militarily, Russia is in such a mess that pretty much any other Western country could defeat it. Politically, they are still pretty powerful. The fact that they have an ex-KGB ultra-nationalist nutjob at the helm isn't very helpful.

I was looking for something a while back, and I found a speech by Putin just after Beslan, pretty scary;

Quote:

"It is difficult and bitter to talk. In our country there has been a terrible tragedy. Over all these days each one of us has deeply suffered and felt through our hearts all that happened in the Russian town of Beslan, where we have come across not only murderers but with people who use weapons against defenceless children and today I offer words of support and sympathy to those who have lost that which is dearest in life, their children, relatives and close ones. I ask you to remember all those died at the hands of the terrorists in these last days. In the history of Russia there have been many difficult experiences. Today we're living in the conditions after the collapse of a huge and great state, a state that was unfortunately unviable in the fast-changing world. But today, despite all of the difficulties we have managed to preserve the core of this giant, the Soviet Union, and we called the new country the Russian Federation. We all expected changes, changes for the better, but we have been absolutely unprepared for much that has changed. Why? We live in the conditions of a changing economy and changes in the political system. We are living in the conditions of intensification. In conditions of tense conflicts and contradictions that before were strictly concealed. Our country was once powerful against the outside. Now is not able to protect itself from the west or east. We have to own up and admit that we have not shown understanding of the complexity and danger of the processes occurring within our own country and in the world as a whole. In any case, we have not been able to react to them in the necessary way as we should. We have shown weakness, and it is the weak that are beaten. This is not a challenge to the President, parliament of government. This is a challenge to all Russia, all of our people. This is an attack on our country. We are dealing not with isolated acts to terrify us, not with individual actions of terrorists. We are facing the direct intervention of international terrorism against Russia - a total, cruel and full-scale war that again and again claims the lives of our compatriots. We must establish a much more effective system of security, demand from our forces of law and order actions that can answer the scale of the new threats that have appeared. But most important is the mobilisation of the nation against the common danger. We always have been and will remain stronger than them, in our morality, courage and human solidarity. I saw this once again last night in Beslan. Literally soaked in grief and pain, people were even more concerned for each other, and were not afraid to risk themselves in the name of the lives and peace of others. We cannot reconcile ourselves with the pain of our losses. But our ordeals have drawn us even closer together, and have made us reassess much. Today we must be together. Only this way will we defeat the enemy. We have on many occasions dealt with difficulties. But this is of unprecedented severity. It's not a call to the President - it's to our country. It's an attack on all of Russia. Terrorists think they're stronger than us, that they can break down our society. We would have been better if we'd been better prepared. We admit that we don't have enough understanding or we couldn't cope with it. People think of us as a country with nuclear powers, so that threat must be put aside. We can either protect ourselves or give in, let them pull us down hoping they'll leave us in peace. As a President who gives his word, I'm convinced we have no choice. If we allow ourselves to be blackmailed or allow people to fall into these conflicts, it's impossible not to see the obvious. We must create a much more effective system of security. We must demand that our security forces act at a level appropriate to the level and scope of the new threats. It is vital to create an effective anti-crisis management system - including fundamentally new approaches in the activity of the security forces. Dear friends, together we are going through heavy, mournful days. I want to thank those who showed strength, we will always be stronger than them. Again I saw this tonight in Beslan, where people saved each other, and weren't afraid of to risk risk themselves. This has made us closer. Today we must be together. Only this way we will defeat the enemy".

http://www.channel4.com/news/2004/09.../04_putin.html

SporkLord · #3 (**permalink**) 11-28-2004, 10:57 AM

They have nukes, doesn't matter how ineffective the army is, they have enough nukes, and enough missile systems to lob them at the enemy. No sovereign nation would want to risk nuclear annihilation, even the US.
Any of Russia's immidiate neighbors are too weak to stand up to Russia. (Except China, and maybe Finland/Baltic States due to EU membership)

Quote:

Today we're living in the conditions after the collapse of a huge and great state, a state that was unfortunately unviable in the fast-changing world. But today, despite all of the difficulties we have managed to preserve the core of this giant, the Soviet Union, and we called the new country the Russian Federation. We all expected changes, changes for the better, but we have been absolutely unprepared for much that has changed. Why? We live in the conditions of a changing economy and changes in the political system. We are living in the conditions of intensification. In conditions of tense conflicts and contradictions that before were strictly concealed. Our country was once powerful against the outside. Now is not able to protect itself from the west or east. We have to own up and admit that we have not shown understanding of the complexity and danger of the processes occurring within our own country and in the world as a whole. In any case, we have not been able to react to them in the necessary way as we should. We have shown weakness, and it is the weak that are beaten. This is not a challenge to the President, parliament of government. This is a challenge to all Russia, all of our people. This is an attack on our country.

Shameless Communist ass-kissing.
- The Russian army is once again the Red Army
- The national anthem is a knock off of the old Soviet One
- Putin is acting all belligerent again... great.

...wonderful, just wonderful. The aggressive military/industrial behemoth that took 60 years for the West to defeat is testing the waters for return. And the West doesn't care! Great.

f100supersabr · #4 (**permalink**) 11-28-2004, 07:50 PM

all is woe you are right on taregt

Quote:

Militarily, Russia is in such a mess that pretty much any other Western country could defeat it. Politically, they are still pretty powerful. The fact that they have an ex-KGB ultra-nationalist nutjob at the helm isn't very helpful.

I was looking for something a while back, and I found a speech by Putin just after Beslan, pretty scary;

You got that right Woe !!!

Beslan was a horrific tragedy perpetrated by by Chechen nutjobs and
I tried to warn everyone when they were falling all over themselves to kiss the Russian's Bears that we should not forget that Putin is a KGB THUG.

Most Europeans and Americans are compassionate peoples and we despise anyone filthy enough o hurt children, yet we forget that the Russians have themselves hurt millions of children in their quest to amass and keep their empire.

f100supersabr · #5 (**permalink**) 11-28-2004, 07:57 PM

SPORLAND YOU GOT IT

Quote:

They have nukes, doesn't matter how ineffective the army is, they have enough nukes, and enough missile systems to lob them at the enemy. No sovereign nation would want to risk nuclear annihilation, even the US.
Any of Russia's immidiate neighbors are too weak to stand up to Russia. (Except China, and maybe Finland/Baltic States due to EU membership)

Putin is a dangerous despot and slicker than WD40 ON ICE .

all-is-woe · #6 (**permalink**) 12-09-2004, 09:53 AM

Russia - the last imperialist country.

They want to reclaim the 'stans' (i.e. Tajikstan, Uzbekistan) and most of East Europe as their own, to increase their empire. Look at the Cold-War; do they think America will let that happen?

MaxFromRussia · #7 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by all-is-woe";p=&quot

Russia - the last imperialist country.

They want to reclaim the 'stans' (i.e. Tajikstan, Uzbekistan) and most of East Europe as their own, to increase their empire. Look at the Cold-War; do they think America will let that happen?

Even the Soviet empire was very strange. Could indian or pakistanian to be prime-minister of English empire or algirian the president of France? But georgian Stalin and ukrainian Hruschev were presidents of the USSR. Strange colonies Georgia and Ukraine...

MaxFromRussia · #8 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f100supersabr";p=&quot

Europe and the U.S. must use all means available short of war or outright interference to stop Russia. Russia must never again be allowed to become a superpower. We must stop any attempts to rebuilt Russia.

Special thanks! We always knew, that Americans love us...

But to your regret Russia will be restored whether or not depends not on the USA or EU. This is Russian business... It happened us and it is much worse, when we were attacked by Hitler... But then the USA have not betraid us, as now...

Quote:

Originally Posted by f100supersabr";p=&quot

Personally I would like to dismantle Russia into 1000 pieces but the reality is that :
1- they have nukes and that would be dangerous
2- we need someone on China's flank

Also do not hope... Moreover Russia still will unpleasantly surprise you...

MaxFromRussia · #9 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f100supersabr";p=&quot

Most Europeans and Americans are compassionate peoples

It is not necessary to tell lies! As far as compassionate Americans everyone see by the example of Iraq...

f100supersabr · #10 (**permalink**) 02-12-2005, 09:32 AM

max of russia wrote

Quote:

Even the Soviet empire was very strange. Could indian or pakistanian to be prime-minister of English empire or algirian the president of France? But georgian Stalin and ukrainian Hruschev were presidents of the USSR. Strange colonies Georgia and Ukraine...

You are absolutely wrong about Khrushchov, he was ethnically Russian, he was sent to Ukraine by Stalin to perform purges e.g. to kill off Ukrainians who got in Stalins way and who oppsed collectivisation and/or had national leanings. Krushchov even killed Ukrainian communists if they identified themselves as Ukrainians first communists second.

Remember that Stalin perpetrated a famine upon Ukraine and killed off 8- 10 million Ukrainians in Eastern, Central, Southern Ukraine. Entire villages were killed off and he moved Russians into the parts of Ukraine where he killed off Ukrainians. That is how Ukraine became infested with Russians and that is why there is a potential Russian separatists problem in Ukraine.

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