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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
But the Dems also told the enemy that we cannot win...and now are telling them we've already lost. The Dems have provided the enemy all the hope and encouragement they need.
Pause for a moment to consider who "the enemy" is. Saddam Hussein is dead. Even putting aside the fact that he wasn't an enemy of ours until it became politically expedient in Washington, he and his sons are dead. Even if they were our enemies, it is extremely improbable that the Baath Party is going to retake control of Iraq.

So "the enemy" is, of course, Al-Qaeda, the group of fringe terrorist Sunnis that attacked the United States as Afghanistan's de facto paramilitary wing on 9/11. While I am still skeptical that Democrats will have the political nerve to oppose the war in Iraq strongly, even weak opposition or neutrality in the debate is less helpful to Al-Qaeda than "staying the course" (whether Bush calls it that or not). The people of the Middle East aren't a different species. They don't embrace an ideology as twisted as Islamism without all of the wrong conditions: Poverty, resented intervention and propaganda. The propaganda from Al-Qaeda will continue regardless of what we do, but in destroying Iraq's infrastructure we have contributed greatly to poverty in Iraq and by invading Iraq we have taken an action that has led to increased anti-American hatred and therefore to more terrorism. We invaded on false pretenses, civilians are inevitably killed in warfare and the Iraqi people long ago wanted us to leave. Continued military intervention of this sort is what Al-Qaeda is undoubtedly praying for. Bush might as well be sending Al-Qaeda recruits.

Ultimately, it comes down to this: Is it more important to us to save American lives or to end Middle Eastern ones? If we focus on actual defense rather than nation building, American lives will be saved. That is my goal, but it clearly is not the goal of ideological elements in this administration. Al-Qaeda was weakened by our destruction of the Taliban; it has been strengthened and continues to be strengthened by our invasion and occupation of Iraq. Therefore, the policies of the GOP (with the exception of people like Ron Paul and Chuck Hagel) are far more helpful to the enemy than anything that the Democratic Party has done. I actually prefer the GOP on most (though not all) domestic issues, but until its leaders re-learn the definition of defense, neither major party is likely to get my votes, and 2006 showed that I am far from being the only American who is dissatisfied with the GOP for many of the same reasons.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007, 06:07 PM
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He should Resign.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-19-2007, 07:23 PM
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Here's the hard truth...

If The United States bureaucratic government would have went into this war UNITED, and with the sole intent of defeating the enemy, and strongly supporting a fledgling nation, our work in Iraq would have been done a while ago. Unfortunately, because of this "more important" power struggle between the two loser parties, we are forced to receive subjective reporting, subjective reasoning from the bureaucracy, and subjective manipulation of our military.

Our military needed to go in there, and crush these insurgents with everything they had. Free of the bureaucratic shackles, they could have gotten the job done quick. Don't ask the media...ask the SOLDIERS. They'd tell you the same thing.

But, ohhhh no! These socialist Commucrats smell blood, and like good shephards, they know how to effectively manipulate their sheep into thinking what they want them to think. They know that, with the help of an incredibly subjective media, they can make our efforts in Iraq look futile. They know that as long as they bury the positive stories, and augment the negative, they can make their loyal little sheep believe that our soldiers are useless (of course, handcuffing the military definitely helps too). They know that this country is run by the "me" generation, and sooner or later, these selfish sheep will forget all about 9/11. They'll forget all about solidarity. They'll be more interested on whether or not Mangina will win American Idiot, than actually taking an interest in who's running this madhouse.

Democracy in Iraq? Not if Henri Reed can help it!
Voter turnout in Iraq that the USA can't even dream about? Bury THAT story!
Schools popping up all over Iraq, where there weren't any? Not THAT story!
Clean water for the first time ever, in lots of towns? Unnecessary to print!
Ten times as many hospitals as before Hussein? Uh...let's hide that information.

A bomb goes off, and a soldier gets some shrapnel? FRONT PAGE NEWS!!!

And you sheep just lap it up. No questions. No inquiries. Just fall right in step with the Commucrat agenda.

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Old 04-19-2007, 08:47 PM
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Default Geez

Quote:
Originally Posted by Force-of-the-Truth";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
But the Dems also told the enemy that we cannot win...and now are telling them we've already lost. The Dems have provided the enemy all the hope and encouragement they need.
Pause for a moment to consider who "the enemy" is. Saddam Hussein is dead. Even putting aside the fact that he wasn't an enemy of ours until it became politically expedient in Washington, he and his sons are dead. Even if they were our enemies, it is extremely improbable that the Baath Party is going to retake control of Iraq.

So "the enemy" is, of course, Al-Qaeda, the group of fringe terrorist Sunnis that attacked the United States as Afghanistan's de facto paramilitary wing on 9/11. While I am still skeptical that Democrats will have the political nerve to oppose the war in Iraq strongly, even weak opposition or neutrality in the debate is less helpful to Al-Qaeda than "staying the course" (whether Bush calls it that or not). The people of the Middle East aren't a different species. They don't embrace an ideology as twisted as Islamism without all of the wrong conditions: Poverty, resented intervention and propaganda. The propaganda from Al-Qaeda will continue regardless of what we do, but in destroying Iraq's infrastructure we have contributed greatly to poverty in Iraq and by invading Iraq we have taken an action that has led to increased anti-American hatred and therefore to more terrorism. We invaded on false pretenses, civilians are inevitably killed in warfare and the Iraqi people long ago wanted us to leave. Continued military intervention of this sort is what Al-Qaeda is undoubtedly praying for. Bush might as well be sending Al-Qaeda recruits.

Ultimately, it comes down to this: Is it more important to us to save American lives or to end Middle Eastern ones? If we focus on actual defense rather than nation building, American lives will be saved. That is my goal, but it clearly is not the goal of ideological elements in this administration. Al-Qaeda was weakened by our destruction of the Taliban; it has been strengthened and continues to be strengthened by our invasion and occupation of Iraq. Therefore, the policies of the GOP (with the exception of people like Ron Paul and Chuck Hagel) are far more helpful to the enemy than anything that the Democratic Party has done. I actually prefer the GOP on most (though not all) domestic issues, but until its leaders re-learn the definition of defense, neither major party is likely to get my votes, and 2006 showed that I am far from being the only American who is dissatisfied with the GOP for many of the same reasons.

A thoughtful, articulate, well-reasoned analysis of the war. How refreshing.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2007, 04:01 AM
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Default Harry Reid

Again I say,


Liberal foreign policy:

RUN AWAY!
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Old 04-20-2007, 06:21 AM
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Default Borg: All War All The Time

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatamerican128";p=&quot View Post
Again I say,
Liberal foreign policy:
RUN AWAY!
Wrong.
Liberal foreign policy... don't start wars based on lies.
Borg Foreign Policy: "We Know What You Think and Will Invade"

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Old 04-20-2007, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apotropoxy";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatamerican128";p=&quot View Post
Again I say,
Liberal foreign policy:
RUN AWAY!
Wrong.
Liberal foreign policy... don't start wars based on lies.
Borg Foreign Policy: "We Know What You Think and Will Invade"

It's more like:

Liberal foreign policy: Wait until someone attacks us, then cry, apologize then send gifts of appeasement.

Everyone else's policy: Ensure we don't get attacked first.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoogiePeople";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by apotropoxy";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatamerican128";p=&quot View Post
Again I say,
Liberal foreign policy:
RUN AWAY!
Wrong.
Liberal foreign policy... don't start wars based on lies.
Borg Foreign Policy: "We Know What You Think and Will Invade"

It's more like:

Liberal foreign policy: Wait until someone attacks us, then cry, apologize then send gifts of appeasement.

Everyone else's policy: Ensure we don't get attacked first.
I agree about "everyone else's policy", but the other foreign policy is the neocon one: Shoot first and dodge questions later.
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:45 AM
apotropoxy apotropoxy is offline
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Default History Lesson For the Borg

Quote:
Liberal foreign policy: Wait until someone attacks us, then cry, apologize then send gifts of appeasement.
You have described the Reagan government sending gifts, bibles, armaments and a cake to the Iranians.
The Liberals, like FDR, retaliate against the country that attacked us rather than Bush the Lame who attacked, invaded and occupied a country that was no threat to us or anybody else.
Quote:
Everyone else's policy: Ensure we don't get attacked first.
This is the justification that Hitler used to invade Czechoslovakia.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2007, 01:22 PM
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Default War in Iraq

Quote:
Originally Posted by apotropoxy";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatamerican128";p=&quot View Post
Again I say,
Liberal foreign policy:
RUN AWAY!
Wrong.
Liberal foreign policy... don't start wars based on lies.
Borg Foreign Policy: "We Know What You Think and Will Invade"

The war in Iraq is not based on lies, and even if we did not find the WMDs we were looking for I didn't mind taking out that gruesome soulless dictator anyhow. He deserved many more deaths for all the people he has killed and tortured(over one million).
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