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Old 05-03-2007, 02:40 PM
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Default That would only apply if the US could fix Iraq.

Quote:
Originally Posted by exigent";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justinian";p=&quot View Post
I have no problem with cutting financial aid as long as it doesn't discourage progress. The Iraqis are going to basically owe us their souls if we win this thing and will have to pay us back some real royalties.
per the original article

Quote:
House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (Md.) indicated that the next bill will include benchmarks for Iraq -- such as passing a law to share oil revenue, quelling religious violence and disarming sectarian militias -- to keep its government on course. Failure to meet benchmarks could cost Baghdad billions of dollars in non-military aid, and the administration would be required to report to Congress every 30 days on the military and political situation in Iraq.
I say we up the charge as long as we are there, and once we leave then they get more/all of their own revenues, as an incentive for them to get off their lazy asses and get their deuce together. -OR- So the world wont see it as though we are outright stealing their oil revenues, give it (or most, minus the cost of us maintaining a presence and compensation for fallen Americans' families) directly to the countries that need it most in the form of aid.
That would only apply if the US could fix Iraq. The US can't.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2007, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ashleykennedy";p=&quot View Post
That would only apply if the US could fix Iraq. The US can't.
I know, only Iraq can fix Iraq, but they dont want to, so they need a little nudge, monetarily. I'm sure they wont like seeing millions of dollars a month go to needy african kids.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:53 PM
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but they're an independant country, so they can take as long as they want, right?
No. They have much work to do. We want them to get it done so we can get the hell out of there.
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

I think benchmarks are a preferred way to go over phased withdrawals and this seems the obvious consensus way to go... but I suppose it wouldn't be as likely had the Crats not pushed for something more extreme.
The only question seems to be what kind of benchmarks. I'm hoping for something in the middle of the Crats and the White House... I'm fond of carrots and sticks being used together, not just one or the other.
The Crats had nothing to do with it. We ALREADY had benchmarks. But hey, if they think they won something....great. ABC News.....a liberal organization....is describing it as "Democrats Back Down."
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Old 05-03-2007, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
We ALREADY had benchmarks.
Benchmarks that are all carrots, no sticks. The likelihood is that there will actually be some accountability involved here.
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Old 05-03-2007, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

I think benchmarks are a preferred way to go over phased withdrawals and this seems the obvious consensus way to go... but I suppose it wouldn't be as likely had the Crats not pushed for something more extreme.
The only question seems to be what kind of benchmarks. I'm hoping for something in the middle of the Crats and the White House... I'm fond of carrots and sticks being used together, not just one or the other.
The Crats had nothing to do with it. We ALREADY had benchmarks. But hey, if they think they won something....great. ABC News.....a liberal organization....is describing it as "Democrats Back Down."
What were the Benchmarks and how many were achieved?

Peace.
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Old 05-03-2007, 05:49 PM
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It's funny to hear Democrats talking about "accountability" in regards to Iraq----when they fight it so hard in our very own public schools.

Setting benchmarks is great. Expecting results is great. But understanding that war is not a pristine laboratory where everything goes as planned is being realistic. Pres. Bush has already told Maliki that the American people's patience is not unlimited. They ALREADY know that there will be a time where we will say, "our job is done here" and leave. We don't need to threaten them too.
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Old 05-03-2007, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superbadbrutha";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

I think benchmarks are a preferred way to go over phased withdrawals and this seems the obvious consensus way to go... but I suppose it wouldn't be as likely had the Crats not pushed for something more extreme.
The only question seems to be what kind of benchmarks. I'm hoping for something in the middle of the Crats and the White House... I'm fond of carrots and sticks being used together, not just one or the other.
The Crats had nothing to do with it. We ALREADY had benchmarks. But hey, if they think they won something....great. ABC News.....a liberal organization....is describing it as "Democrats Back Down."
What were the Benchmarks and how many were achieved?

Peace.
Didn't say they were all achieved. But the new benchmarks were put in place in January of this year with the new surge plan.

"Benchmarks for Baghdad"
Bush's plan puts the burden on Iraqi leaders to defuse growing sectarian tensions by jumpstarting their long-stalled program of national reconciliation. He has ended the prospect of an open-ended American troop commitment by tying his proposed surge to a series of benchmarks that Iraqis must accomplish: deploying more Iraqi troops to Baghdad; setting up a fair process for amending the Iraqi constitution to assuage nervous Sunni Arabs that their rights will be safeguarded against a tyranny of the majority; passing legislation on the distribution of oil revenues to assure each group an equitable share of Iraq's economic wealth; holding provincial elections to empower pragmatic local leaders; and reforming the de-Baathification laws that many Sunnis believe discriminate against them. These benchmarks must be enforced by threatening to reduce the future commitment of American troops and economic aid if they are not implemented. President Bush has pledged to do this.

The Maliki government has apparently signed off on a change of the rules of engagement for American forces that will allow them to seek out and arrest or eliminate members of death squads and militias that undermine the national government. This would be a major change from past experience, when American troops arrested militia leaders for illegal acts and then the Iraqi government quickly released them from jail. The Administration must secure the firm agreement of the Iraqi authorities to take sustained action to contain Shiite militias and prevent them from killing with impunity. In particular, the Mahdi militia of radical cleric Moktada al-Sadr, which has staged two bloody revolts against coalition forces and continues to attack Sunnis as well as rival Shiite movements, must be brought to heel. Continuing current U.S. efforts to suppress Sunni insurgents when al-Sadr's death squads remain free to murder more Sunnis—building support for the insurgents—makes no sense.

President Bush said last night that Prime Minister Maliki had pledged to take stronger action to curb the militias and make some difficult compromises to attract greater Sunni Arab support for the government. Prime Minister Maliki must be held to this promise."
http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm1304.cfm

In the last couple of months there have been many examples of the Iraqi troops in battles with the insurgency and al Qaeda. So, they are being more aggressive. Just the other day it was Iraqi troops that claim they killed the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq.....although I think it's yet to be confirmed. However, they did battle with them, killing many.

Maliki also shows serious efforts in including the Sunnis in government and treating them fairly as he promised.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:08 PM
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All of which he should know himself JP5.
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Old 05-04-2007, 04:23 AM
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Default So

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superbadbrutha";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP5";p=&quot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaBlack";p=&quot View Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

I think benchmarks are a preferred way to go over phased withdrawals and this seems the obvious consensus way to go... but I suppose it wouldn't be as likely had the Crats not pushed for something more extreme.
The only question seems to be what kind of benchmarks. I'm hoping for something in the middle of the Crats and the White House... I'm fond of carrots and sticks being used together, not just one or the other.
The Crats had nothing to do with it. We ALREADY had benchmarks. But hey, if they think they won something....great. ABC News.....a liberal organization....is describing it as "Democrats Back Down."
What were the Benchmarks and how many were achieved?

Peace.
Didn't say they were all achieved. But the new benchmarks were put in place in January of this year with the new surge plan.

"Benchmarks for Baghdad"
Bush's plan puts the burden on Iraqi leaders to defuse growing sectarian tensions by jumpstarting their long-stalled program of national reconciliation. He has ended the prospect of an open-ended American troop commitment by tying his proposed surge to a series of benchmarks that Iraqis must accomplish: deploying more Iraqi troops to Baghdad; setting up a fair process for amending the Iraqi constitution to assuage nervous Sunni Arabs that their rights will be safeguarded against a tyranny of the majority; passing legislation on the distribution of oil revenues to assure each group an equitable share of Iraq's economic wealth; holding provincial elections to empower pragmatic local leaders; and reforming the de-Baathification laws that many Sunnis believe discriminate against them. These benchmarks must be enforced by threatening to reduce the future commitment of American troops and economic aid if they are not implemented. President Bush has pledged to do this.

The Maliki government has apparently signed off on a change of the rules of engagement for American forces that will allow them to seek out and arrest or eliminate members of death squads and militias that undermine the national government. This would be a major change from past experience, when American troops arrested militia leaders for illegal acts and then the Iraqi government quickly released them from jail. The Administration must secure the firm agreement of the Iraqi authorities to take sustained action to contain Shiite militias and prevent them from killing with impunity. In particular, the Mahdi militia of radical cleric Moktada al-Sadr, which has staged two bloody revolts against coalition forces and continues to attack Sunnis as well as rival Shiite movements, must be brought to heel. Continuing current U.S. efforts to suppress Sunni insurgents when al-Sadr's death squads remain free to murder more Sunnis—building support for the insurgents—makes no sense.

President Bush said last night that Prime Minister Maliki had pledged to take stronger action to curb the militias and make some difficult compromises to attract greater Sunni Arab support for the government. Prime Minister Maliki must be held to this promise."
http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm1304.cfm

In the last couple of months there have been many examples of the Iraqi troops in battles with the insurgency and al Qaeda. So, they are being more aggressive. Just the other day it was Iraqi troops that claim they killed the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq.....although I think it's yet to be confirmed. However, they did battle with them, killing many.

Maliki also shows serious efforts in including the Sunnis in government and treating them fairly as he promised.

The first benchmarks came with the surge. And the surge was Bush's response to the Baker Report. And the Baker Report was a bipartisan effort.
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