Senate vote to shield wire tap collaborators - Page 13

BroncoBilly · #**121** (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 10:27 AM

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Originally Posted by TarBaby";p=&quot

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Originally Posted by BroncoBilly";p=&quot

What we agree on is, people were tapped, so what, it is not you that makes our laws, you may not like it, but that is the way it is,

Its like arguing on a merry-go-round. I can say whatever I want, but you don't listen, and end up right back where you started.

But, as an exercise in patience. Here we go again.

I'm not saying I make the laws. But, I did point out the laws already made. The Supreme Court has ruled on this, FISA has ruled on this, the laws are on the books, and they say YOU CANNOT WIRETAP WITHOUT A WARRANT. Just plain can't. No good, not allowed, nuh uh, ixnay, nein! Its not my opinion, its a fact of the legal system. So please, either put up some evidence that I'm incorrect, or just give it up and admit when you're wrong.

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and that is the point, old laws changed, new laws implimented, and that is the way it is.

The laws have yet to be changed. Seriously. All of the laws against warrantless wiretapping are still on the books. And, they were on the books when Bush gave his orders. BUSH and the NSA BROKE the LAW. You haven't provided a shred of evidence citing otherwise. Your just beating your fist against the wall with the same tired talking points we've all heard before.

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I'd suggest not contacting anyone in the middle east, because you will be caught.

And I was really hoping to wish Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a very merry Christmas too. (*)(*)(*)(*).

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I was in Vietnam, and we will hunt you down, and take you out. We didn't lose any war in Vietnam, and we lost no battles, we just left, end of story. America is still the king of the hill, no matter how much those that hate us, we are supreme, we can kick anyone on this planets ass, and that is the bottom line, the same happened in Nam, the same will happen in the war on terror. Fu*k with the bull, and you will get the horns.

I'm really sorry to hear that you were in such a terrible conflict. It must have been awful. But, living in a rage induced denial of the state of the world, clinging to old comforting thoughts of American superiority, and doing it to advocate brutality and suppression of basic freedoms is no way to go about life. Please Billy, let go of the ignorance, and the hatred, and the sadness. You're hurting yourself, and infecting the people that have to listen to your poisoned rhetoric.

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The unity in this nation was so awesome when we got whacked, and if it happens again, those that complain about this goofy stuff, will be silenced, and you can bank on that.

Its a shame that you see defending the Constitution and the basic rights of Americans as "goofy stuff." I thought you were supposed to be a red blooded Republican. Where's your honor?

As any true liberal loon, you display your pompous arrogant ignorance again and again. Laws broken? Then arrest them? Why are you liberal loons whining about it, arrest whom ever broke constitutional laws. Why is this so hard?

You have an interpretation of our constitution and so do others, and your interpretation is going to the senate to be voted on, with the likelihood going to what the original post was, you lose, and the rest of us that see it differently win. BTW, you may want to contact all the senators voting on this issue, the majority being democrat, I'm sure they would love to hear from you. As I said time and time again, the democrats in control also want to protect our nation, and it is not their best interests or any one's interests to allow even one disastrous event to occur.

Yes, Vietnam was a terrible atrocity, an atrocity of Americans like you spitting on us, and calling us baby killers for those of us that served. You probably never take into account the millions of Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians that made it to America to embrace our nation, liberals like you always see the glass half empty instead of half full, and that is the pathetic part of your ideological lunacy.

Troublebrewing · #**122** (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 10:33 AM

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Originally Posted by BroncoBilly";p=&quot

Yes, Vietnam was a terrible atrocity, an atrocity of Americans like you spitting on us, and calling us baby killers for those of us that served. You probably never take into account the millions of Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians that made it to America to embrace our nation, liberals like you always see the glass half full, and that is the pathetic part of your ideological lunacy.

The Vietnam War was a crime of American aggression. Summoning a few incidents (which were extremely rare, though they've been mythologized into a faux crisis) of bad behavior towards those who served doesn't change the fact of the criminal aggression one bit.

I think the millions of dead people is more significant than a tiny handful of rude gestures towards soldiers who deserved more respect. I mean, let's get some proportion, here.

BroncoBilly · #**123** (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 10:46 AM

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Originally Posted by Troublebrewing";p=&quot

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Originally Posted by BroncoBilly";p=&quot

Yes, Vietnam was a terrible atrocity, an atrocity of Americans like you spitting on us, and calling us baby killers for those of us that served. You probably never take into account the millions of Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians that made it to America to embrace our nation, liberals like you always see the glass half full, and that is the pathetic part of your ideological lunacy.

The Vietnam War was a crime of American aggression. Summoning a few incidents (which were extremely rare, though they've been mythologized into a faux crisis) of bad behavior towards those who served doesn't change the fact of the criminal aggression one bit.

I think the millions of dead people is more significant than a tiny handful of rude gestures towards soldiers who deserved more respect. I mean, let's get some proportion, here.

Let's get some proportion here, the liberal loons are the one's that caused the millions to die, when we left, they died, period, end of story. You can question the reason for our being there, but the fact is when we left the atrocities began.

Troublebrewing · #**124** (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 10:52 AM

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Originally Posted by BroncoBilly";p=&quot

Let's get some proportion here, the liberal loons are the one's that caused the millions to die, when we left, they died, period, end of story. You can question the reason for our being there, but the fact is when we left the atrocities began.

No...the atrocities began when we started slaughtering innocent people.
And yes, terrible atrocities occurred after we left...our invasion helped set the stage for them, too.

I guess the same conservatives who moan about "personal responsibility" don't believe that US leaders and planners should ever be held responsible for anything. It's always someone else's fault.

It takes real discipline, I bet, to achieve that staggering level of shiny-eyed obedience.

BroncoBilly · #**125** (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troublebrewing";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBilly";p=&quot

Let's get some proportion here, the liberal loons are the one's that caused the millions to die, when we left, they died, period, end of story. You can question the reason for our being there, but the fact is when we left the atrocities began.

No...the atrocities began when we started slaughtering innocent people.
And yes, terrible atrocities occurred after we left...our invasion helped set the stage for them, too.

I guess the same conservatives who moan about "personal responsibility" don't believe that US leaders and planners should ever be held responsible for anything. It's always someone else's fault.

It takes real discipline, I bet, to achieve that staggering level of shiny-eyed obedience.

...you make the same excuses for al qaeda too.

You may want to check who the bad guys were in Nam, I'll give you a clue, Charlie, and the NVA, which they would be considered today as al qaeda. Innocents killed in Nam, yep, on purpose, nope. Please give us an example of any war ever fought that innocent life wasn't lost.

southwillrise · #**126** (**permalink**) 12-24-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBilly";p=&quot

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Originally Posted by Troublebrewing";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBilly";p=&quot

Yes, Vietnam was a terrible atrocity, an atrocity of Americans like you spitting on us, and calling us baby killers for those of us that served. You probably never take into account the millions of Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians that made it to America to embrace our nation, liberals like you always see the glass half full, and that is the pathetic part of your ideological lunacy.

The Vietnam War was a crime of American aggression. Summoning a few incidents (which were extremely rare, though they've been mythologized into a faux crisis) of bad behavior towards those who served doesn't change the fact of the criminal aggression one bit.

I think the millions of dead people is more significant than a tiny handful of rude gestures towards soldiers who deserved more respect. I mean, let's get some proportion, here.

Let's get some proportion here, the liberal loons are the one's that caused the millions to die, when we left, they died, period, end of story. You can question the reason for our being there, but the fact is when we left the atrocities began.

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when we left the atrocities began

Actually, OTHER atrocities began. They happened way before we got there, while we were there and after we left.

If the loons on the left were respjsible for what happened when we left then the loons on the right we were responsible for the ones before and during.

nonsqtr · #**127** (**permalink**) 12-25-2007, 01:08 AM

Too many (*)(*)(*)(*) loons in this world -

I'll tell you what's loony though - it ain't liberals or conservatives.

It's people who don't wanna talk, and insist on fighting.

Troublebrewing · #**128** (**permalink**) 12-25-2007, 02:16 AM

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Originally Posted by BroncoBilly";p=&quot

...you make the same excuses for al qaeda too.

You may want to check who the bad guys were in Nam, I'll give you a clue, Charlie, and the NVA, which they would be considered today as al qaeda. Innocents killed in Nam, yep, on purpose, nope. Please give us an example of any war ever fought that innocent life wasn't lost.

I make the "same excuses for al qaeda too"?

I make no excuses for anyone. You are the one making excuses, because extremist nationalism turns people into cowards.

And obviously we killed plenty of innocents in vietnam on purpose.

BroncoBilly · #**129** (**permalink**) 12-25-2007, 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troublebrewing";p=&quot

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBilly";p=&quot

...you make the same excuses for al qaeda too.

You may want to check who the bad guys were in Nam, I'll give you a clue, Charlie, and the NVA, which they would be considered today as al qaeda. Innocents killed in Nam, yep, on purpose, nope. Please give us an example of any war ever fought that innocent life wasn't lost.

I make the "same excuses for al qaeda too"?

I make no excuses for anyone. You are the one making excuses, because extremist nationalism turns people into cowards.

And obviously we killed plenty of innocents in vietnam on purpose.

The only thing you would ever know about Vietnam is what you have read, and I would venture to say you weren't even born then. First, just so you know, American soldiers in Vietnam, and Iraq never purposely target civilians. Our missions have been noble trying to help those that can't help themselves, and American soldiers are noble and do very noble things because we are Americans. America is the most benevolent nation on this earth, or has ever been on this earth. We have our faults, but our greatness outweighs the inequities by a long shot.

Other than a few isolated incidences that have occurred in Vietnam, Iraq, or any other war for that matter, is just that, isolated. So put yourself back in your goofy liberal box, the box that finds nothing but fault in America, because the vast majority of Americans love our nation. If you find nationalism to be a bad thing, then I'd suggest you move the fu*k out of here and find a place where you would be more happy, like a deserted island. Because that is the only place on this planet where you could squarely place blame on it's inhabitants, and that would be just you.

BTW; Merry Christmas from a proud American

paragon · #**130** (**permalink**) 12-25-2007, 07:45 AM

Wire tapping is there to do one thing and one thing only, catch people who are planning to do illegal activities. Wire tapping is not there to and will not be used to round up political dissenters and throw them in jail or catch John Smith from Nebraska saying bad things about the president. You have nothing to fear from wire tapping unless you are planning on doing an illegal activity such as planning a terrorist attack.

Even if the government was to wiretap someone and they said something bad about the president and some people came and threw him in jail, the press would grab a hold of that almost immediately. That person undoubtedly knows other people considering that he was talking on the phone to someone. Those people will wonder why he was suddenly taken from his home and thrown in jail. There will be interviews, television coverage, 'experts' coming on and talking about it, the works. They will hold the government accountable for it and the government will lose a lot of its credibility in the eyes of many people. This is why that will never happen.

So, returning to what I said earlier, the only people who have anything to fear from wire tapping is those who are doing something wrong in the first place.

Besides, the government is not some evil machine intent on oppressing opinions of people, the government is made up of your neighbors, your sons, your daughters, etc...

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