Thread: The Chinese have a jet to match F-22

Originally Posted by Mushroom

This is not even a "plane" yet, this is a prototype.

And as usual for most Chinese pojects, it will be replaced by 3 more prototypes before it ever sees production.

Well, if it gets past the prototype stage, it and similar projects will make it tough to sell the ageing F-16s and F-18s to third partners.

Originally Posted by Peter Szarycz

Well, if it gets past the prototype stage, it and similar projects will make it tough to sell the ageing F-16s and F-18s to third partners.

While the F-16 general design is getting old, the avionics on them through constant upgrades are still first rate.

And you can't compare this aircraft or the F-16 with the F/A-18. Neither of the other 2 are naval aircraft designed to operate off of aircraft carriers. Different aircraft, different missions.

Wonder if the Chinese are havin' these kinda problems with their stealth fighter?...

More problems for F-22 beyond mysterious oxygen loss issue
July 16th, 2012 : Two recent in-flight emergencies involving troubled oxygen systems in the F-22 "Raptor" are unrelated to other, more worrisome breathing problems pilots have experienced for more than a year when flying the plane, according to U.S. Air Force officials.

The Air Force has been investigating why a number of F-22 pilots have experienced a mysterious loss of oxygen while in the air, causing dizziness and confusion known as hypoxia, since spring 2011. But two recent incidents related to the F-22 oxygen system are considered regular mechanical issues not connected to the oxygen deprivation investigation, according to Air Force Lt. Col. Tadd Sholtis, a spokesman for the Air Force's Air Combat Command. "The recent incidents that have resulted in new expressions of concern are of a different kind than the ones we have been focused on in recent months," Sholtis told CNN's Security Clearance.

Air Force officials have labeled the number of unexplained F-22 breathing incidents as "cause unknown," while labeling the two recent incidents as "cause known. The latest problems prompted two members of Congress, Sen. Mark Warner, D-Virginia, and Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Illinois, to send a letter to the Air Force secretary last week demanding answers. In an e-mail response to Security Clearance, Sholtis sent information on what Air Force initial investigations found in the two recent incidents. Sholtis said the mechanical issues were "not specific to the F-22 aircraft." One of the incidents, an oxygen system malfunction on July 6, is still under investigation by the Air Force and the plane remains grounded, according to the Air Force information provided by Sholtis, but the incident is still listed as a "cause known" problem.

While returning from a training mission, the pilot from the 154th Wing of the Hawaii Air National Guard received a warning indication that the Onboard Oxygen Generating System (OBOGS) was malfunctioning and declared an in-flight emergency. "The pilot experienced a hypoxic symptom in conjunction with the aircraft warning and activated the emergency oxygen system," according to the information given to Security Clearance. The pilot recovered and landed the plane without a problem after receiving emergency oxygen. "The pilot has no lingering physiological effects and has returned to flight status. More details will be available when the investigation is complete, but we're confident the annunciation of the OBOGS warning during the flight points to the cause, which was a malfunction within the OBOGS," according to the information.

On June 26, an F-22 pilot from the 1st Fighter Wing was conducting routine flight operations out of Langley Air Force Base in Virginia. The pilot reported a "temporary restriction," in breathing and "was not receiving the normal flow of oxygen through the hose," to his face mask as he was on final approach. The pilot was able to land the plane safely, according to the information. After parking the plane, the pilot remained in the cockpit and was instructed to engage the emergency oxygen system, the information said. The emergency system shoots pure oxygen into a pilot's mask as part of a safety protocol. While the pilot was breathing the emergency air, he reported tightness in his chest for a short time, according to the information from Sholtis. It was later diagnosed as atelectasis related to breathing a high concentration of oxygen, the statement said. Altelectasis is defined as a partial or total lung collapse.

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I think its quite pre-mature to jump on the Chinese bandwagon. Anyone can take a fiero frame and built a ferari around it, but they are not going to call it a ferari, because it is not a ferari. All we know is that the Chinese have an aircraft that looks like it can compete with an F-22. We don't know its capabilities. What kind of avionics does it have? How manuverable is this aircraft and can it structually withstand the kind of manuvers the F-22 can? These are questions we do not have the answers to. We know most of these answers for the F-22.

Originally Posted by Courtney203

I think its quite pre-mature to jump on the Chinese bandwagon. Anyone can take a fiero frame and built a ferari around it, but they are not going to call it a ferari, because it is not a ferari. All we know is that the Chinese have an aircraft that looks like it can compete with an F-22. We don't know its capabilities. What kind of avionics does it have? How manuverable is this aircraft and can it structually withstand the kind of manuvers the F-22 can? These are questions we do not have the answers to. We know most of these answers for the F-22.

To the drive-by China fanboys, this does not matter. Every other day they are in here praising Chinese Technology to the sky moon and stars.

It does not matter that China has serious problems in actually delivering anything. It does not matter that they spend decades working on "prototypes", never quite seeming to deliver a finished project. That they will give press releases praising their new equipment years before it even takes to the air for the first time.

I take Chinese military claims with a grain of salt. A grain of salt the size of a double decker London bus.

Originally Posted by Mushroom

To the drive-by China fanboys, this does not matter. Every other day they are in here praising Chinese Technology to the sky moon and stars.

It does not matter that China has serious problems in actually delivering anything. It does not matter that they spend decades working on "prototypes", never quite seeming to deliver a finished project. That they will give press releases praising their new equipment years before it even takes to the air for the first time.

I take Chinese military claims with a grain of salt. A grain of salt the size of a double decker London bus.

How many issues have there been with the F22 and F35!? We in the west have no idea how far advanced Chinas Military technology is - It is all based on opinion... and I think we should be very careful when scrutinising others Military Megaprojects!

Plus, China have almost certainly got much more than the J20 up their sleeve.

Originally Posted by unclebob

How many issues have there been with the F22 and F35!? We in the west have no idea how far advanced Chinas Military technology is - It is all based on opinion... and I think we should be very careful when scrutinising others Military Megaprojects!

Plus, China have almost certainly got much more than the J20 up their sleeve.

Please, we know pretty much everything about it, because China makes it a point to tell the world. Even years before they even have a working production model.

When it comes to military equipment, China is about the most transparent country in the world. They make every announcement like it is major news, and hold press conferences constantly. They praise it to the sun-moon and stars, even before the first prototype is even completed.

Then you have the fact that they rarely ever get past the prototype stage. Their list of military equipment is full of projects that are developed, prototyped, tested, then replaced with a new prototype model before the first even hits production. A view at their tank models shows this for over 30 years. As does their Air Force.

J-7 (MiG-21 copy), J-8 (a MiG-21 copy), J-9 (yet another MiG-21 copy), J-10 (MiG-21 copy), J-11 (Su-27 copy). And these are the ones that have made it all the way to the final testing and deployment stage. Every 5 years or so they make the claim of having the "best fighter in the world", bragging to the world what they have and what it can do. All while it is still on the drawing board. Then they make a few hundred, and start on the very next project, saying that it is even better then the last one.

THis is why a great many of us who know how military R&D take these claims very susipciously. And even though each one is marketed to the Third World as a fighter for export, so far the only exports were a few hundred J-7s (which is an exact copy of the MiG-21). Pakistan has an order for 36 J-10s, which will not even start delivery until the end of the year at the soonest (I can go into the blown timeline of aircraft produced in China if needed).

Oh, and to show what I mean, China has already anounced and started development of the F60/J21 fighter. So the J20 once again is more then likely a perpetual protortpe, and will be replaced by the F60/J21 before it is ever finished.

Originally Posted by Mushroom

Please, we know pretty much everything about it, because China makes it a point to tell the world. Even years before they even have a working production model.

When it comes to military equipment, China is about the most transparent country in the world. They make every announcement like it is major news, and hold press conferences constantly. They praise it to the sun-moon and stars, even before the first prototype is even completed.

Then you have the fact that they rarely ever get past the prototype stage. Their list of military equipment is full of projects that are developed, prototyped, tested, then replaced with a new prototype model before the first even hits production. A view at their tank models shows this for over 30 years. As does their Air Force.

J-7 (MiG-21 copy), J-8 (a MiG-21 copy), J-9 (yet another MiG-21 copy), J-10 (MiG-21 copy), J-11 (Su-27 copy). And these are the ones that have made it all the way to the final testing and deployment stage. Every 5 years or so they make the claim of having the "best fighter in the world", bragging to the world what they have and what it can do. All while it is still on the drawing board. Then they make a few hundred, and start on the very next project, saying that it is even better then the last one.

THis is why a great many of us who know how military R&D take these claims very susipciously. And even though each one is marketed to the Third World as a fighter for export, so far the only exports were a few hundred J-7s (which is an exact copy of the MiG-21). Pakistan has an order for 36 J-10s, which will not even start delivery until the end of the year at the soonest (I can go into the blown timeline of aircraft produced in China if needed).

Oh, and to show what I mean, China has already anounced and started development of the F60/J21 fighter. So the J20 once again is more then likely a perpetual protortpe, and will be replaced by the F60/J21 before it is ever finished.

Dem fancy Russian missiles sold round the world gonna shoot down those fancy planes anyway so we had best be developing more drones !

Originally Posted by Giftedone

Dem fancy Russian missiles sold round the world gonna shoot down those fancy planes anyway so we had best be developing more drones !

Errrr, yea. Right.

I am not even gonna go there. But consider how many of those have been fired at US aircraft over the last 2 decades, and how many aircraft were actually brought down.

Statement refuted.

Originally Posted by Mushroom

Errrr, yea. Right.

I am not even gonna go there. But consider how many of those have been fired at US aircraft over the last 2 decades, and how many aircraft were actually brought down.

Statement refuted.

None of the new Russian technology has been fired at a US aircraft .. no worries.. even the old stuff was able to bring down a "stealthy" US F117 over Serbia in 1999 using an "innovation to update our 1960's vintage SAM's" http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...-stealth_x.htm

Several other NATO warplanes were damaged by missile hits but managed to struggle back to bases in neighboring Bosnia, Macedonia or Croatia. At least one is said to have ditched into the Adriatic Sea as it attempted to regain its base in Italy.

LOL ..If modified 1960's technology can take out one of the most sophisticated planes in existence..

Military analysts debated how the planes would fare in a war against a militarily sophisticated opponent if an obsolescent air defense such as Serbia's could manage to track and destroy them

Good luck against a real opponent.

Ya .. real refutation there mush.