What do you think Sergeant?
any validity to this?

Army Reviewing Complaints Over Bullets
May 30, 2008
Associated Press
HUNTSVILLE, Ala. - The military is reviewing Soldiers' complaints that their standard ammunition isn't powerful enough for the type of fighting required in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army's highest-ranking officer said Thursday. But Gen. George W. Casey Jr., the Army chief of staff, said it was too soon to say whether the Pentagon will switch.

Current and former Soldiers interviewed by The Associated Press said the military's M855 rifle rounds are not powerful enough for close-in fighting in cities and towns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Speaking with reporters at a conference in Huntsville, Casey said leaders are constantly soliciting feedback from Soldiers in the field and were aware of complaints about the M855 ammunition.

"To effectively prepare them we have to adapt as the enemy adapts, and that is some of the feedback we have gotten," Casey said. "We'll evaluate it quickly and then we'll decide how we want to proceed."

But Casey said it would be premature to say if the Pentagon will consider a different type of ammunition.

"I can't tell you exactly what we're going to do," he said.

The M855 rounds were designed decades ago to puncture the steel helmets of Soviet soldiers from hundreds of yards away. Some Soldiers said that they are not large enough to stop an enemy immediately in close quarters.

Casey said the military has been evaluating its equipment and practices since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

"Technology is pulling us, and what we're learning on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan is pushing us," he said.

bump

Does CDP still post here?

I must apologize sir. Ive been busy @ work. This Asst OPS Chief stuff has got to go.


Simple answer here mate. Several years ago MARCORSYSCOM issued a message with test results stating that the M855 from the M4 and M4A1'a 16 inch barrel did not have sufficient muzzle velocity to fragment on impact at the same distances as the M855 from a 20 inch barrel. So they suggested that units should issue the 77gr open tip boat tailed MK262 MOD0/1 to M4 rifle bearers. Though it was designed to give better external ballistics (particularly for the SAM-R, SDM-R, and MK-12) because of its construction and open tip (not the same as a hollow point) it would fragment at lower velocities. It was also published that using the M193 from the 16 inch barrel would offer better terminal results than the M855 but you would suffer a loss in accuracy, and still would not get fragmentation out to the same distances as M855 or M193 from a 20 inch barrel. But I am sure that many units worried about the loss in intermediate barrier penetration from both the MK262 and M193. So it is a toss up.

The Army must not have followed this advise (as we are Marines, we can't possibly know what we are talking about).

Also, ordering multiple types of ammo in the same caliber, and issuing people that are in the same squad different types of ammo is a logistical nightmare.

Fear not. MARCORSYSCOM is currently testing the 6.8, and from what I hear, and have read, she has better external and terminal ballistics than the 5.56, and better terminal effects than 7.62x51.

Now all we have to do is get it NATO approved. Yes even if it were not NATO approved we could use it in Iraq and Afghan (enter Hague conventions). But to get the bean counters approval we would have to get it approved so we can use it in future conflicts. Costs a lot of money to replace all standard issue weapons, and retrain everyone with them.

__________________
The difference between a Socialist and a Communist is that the Socialist doesn't have all the guns yet.

Understood regarding your current billet assignment.
No apology necessary, I appreciate you taking the time to reply.
We need a genuine war fighter's words in here on occasion, I hope you don't
remain scarce with respect to your postings.

Thank you again for the reply.

I will be around.

__________________
The difference between a Socialist and a Communist is that the Socialist doesn't have all the guns yet.

Hey CDP, with who and where did you serve? I was with the 4th man. 1st Attack/Recon Btn. 4 Aviation Rgt. then did 18 months with Blackwater flying a OH-6 out of Baghdad.

I take it you were a WO?

I transported a few Cayuse/Little Birds.



I drove a C-130 w/ the 777th EAS

Ive been with a few different units. 3/8 1/6 2nd Recon BN and now MARSOC (though I am riding a frigging desk in the G3)

__________________
The difference between a Socialist and a Communist is that the Socialist doesn't have all the guns yet.

Operations and Plans serves a vital function; and training of course.

Gotcha, good stuff man