Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > Political Issues > Warfare / Military > Security & Defenses


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 04:59 AM
B L Zeebub's Avatar
B L Zeebub B L Zeebub is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Evicted by the Landlords
Posts: 4,444
croatia european union
B L Zeebub has a reputation beyond reputeB L Zeebub has a reputation beyond reputeB L Zeebub has a reputation beyond reputeB L Zeebub has a reputation beyond reputeB L Zeebub has a reputation beyond reputeB L Zeebub has a reputation beyond reputeB L Zeebub has a reputation beyond reputeB L Zeebub has a reputation beyond reputeB L Zeebub has a reputation beyond reputeB L Zeebub has a reputation beyond reputeB L Zeebub has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 23,084
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spare View Post
I have neither the time, nor the inclination, to wade thru the claptrap you call posts in order to find your errors. Feel free to do your own research.

Hypocritical? You shout from the rooftops that anybody who supports the war, and doesn't fight in it, is a hypocrite, but yet, I don't see you over there trying to stop it. Instead, you sit here, in your comfortable little cocoon, striking out at anyone who dares to espouse a different opinion than the great Catawba. You shout freedom of speech, and the right to be heard, but yet, won't allow others to provide their viewpoint. THAT is hypocritical. When are you packing your bags?
So now you are a Puling, Pharisaical, Toady, and a self appointed emigration expert on the qualities it takes to remain a citizen of the "Land of the Free"

McCarthyism is still alive
__________________
None. Mod edit to remove profanity. Fools to the left of me, Jokers to the right, here I am stuck up the middle of you!
Religion is a load of bollocks,

Im a Tart, What! you want some of this


Im glad I am a bottom feeder, not an arse licker!

We are Doooooooooomed
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 07:03 AM
kronikcope kronikcope is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ohio
Age: 26
Posts: 909
usa us ohio
kronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 3,498
Default

Quote:
Blackwater is a company of mercenaries.
correct

Quote:
We need to take them out of service and soon. They are jeopardizing our safety because Muslims see how Blackwater acts and assumes we are all like that
.

How does Blackwater act? What are you basing your asumptions on?

Quote:
And Blackwater does not represent us...they are the worst of us.
"Us"? Do you meen the USA? You are correct, Blackwater does not represent the USA, nor did Blackwater say they did or give any notion they did. And, they are the worst of us? You realize Blackwater soldiers are some of the best soldiers in the world, right? 90% of them being ex special ops.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 07:08 AM
Taomon's Avatar
Taomon Taomon is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South Shore MA
Age: 40
Posts: 2,033
usa us massachusetts
Taomon is a splendid one to beholdTaomon is a splendid one to beholdTaomon is a splendid one to beholdTaomon is a splendid one to beholdTaomon is a splendid one to beholdTaomon is a splendid one to beholdTaomon is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 8,705
Send a message via Yahoo to Taomon
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronikcope View Post
correct

.

How does Blackwater act? What are you basing your asumptions on?



"Us"? Do you meen the USA? You are correct, Blackwater does not represent the USA, nor did Blackwater say they did or give any notion they did. And, they are the worst of us? You realize Blackwater soldiers are some of the best soldiers in the world, right? 90% of them being ex special ops.
In the eyes of those under siege in Iraq, they see Blackwater mercenaries bully people and open fire on civilians and they believe that it is the USA doing it. They do not differentiate between American soldiers and American mercenaries.
__________________
Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum
(To such heights of evil are men driven by religion)

Last edited by Taomon; 07-17-2008 at 07:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 07:14 AM
catzmeow's Avatar
catzmeow catzmeow is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Florida
Age: 42
Posts: 16,206
usa us florida
catzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 80,053
Send a message via Yahoo to catzmeow
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronikcope View Post
Alright this kinda pisses me off. This guy in my opinion is generalizing Blackwater on a few incidents in Iraq. Without a doubt, Blackwater soldiers are the best Pay for Play soldiers in the world.

And the fact of the matter is simple, unless you pay us well and give us legal loops, we're not going to set one foot in Iraq. People don't do this (*)(*)(*)(*) b/c its fun.
The soldiers themselves knew and understood the military code of conduct that they were operating under. Blaming a private organization for knowingly violating the rules of the commitment you've made is simply absurd. You don't do that. If wrong-doing is occurrring, you report it, and take whatever steps necessary to be a person of conscience.

I know a few Blackwater employees. They all served multiple stints in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, and most served for 10+ years in direct combat roles in the Marines or the Army. They're all top-caliber. Blackwater is primarily in the people protection business right now. They are assigned to protect the safety of U.S. non-military personnel and Iraqi political leaders. The fact of the matter is that there are any number of state department and other non-military personnel in Iraq working hard to help establish systems to support self-governance. The military CANNOT do this job, and civilians are required to guide this process. BW employees protect their safety and ensure that they can do the jobs that are needed to support the peace. Attacks have been targeted specifically at Iraqi politicians and others who are trying to create administrative and government systems for the people of Iraq. These attacks are targeted by those who would like to see the Iraqi government fail, and the nation descend into chaos. These people do not want a democracy to emerge from their country, they want a THEOCRACY that would curtail the liberties of their religious rivals.

We simply do not have enough military personnel to fill all combat roles and protection details. And, these protection details require highly trained personnel who, if they were still active duty military, would be required in other areas. Any service member can only be assigned to a combat role for so many years of their service. And, after 10+ years, they have a right to leave military service if they so choose. Why should their expertise, however, be lost to us as a country? We need their skills, and we should be willing to pay for them.

You cannot have a transition to peace in Iraq while not protecting the American (and other UN agency) civilians and elected Iraqi officials.

And the fact remains that these democratically elected iraqi leaders are serving at significant risk to their own lives and those of their families. The more support they have to pursue their goals, the sooner we can get all of our people out.

Say what you want about BW, they do the job they're paid to do, at tremendous risk to their personnel, and they do it well...better than anyone else could do it at this point in time. How many of their protected people has BW lost, so far?
__________________
I'll get nicer when you get smarter.



Last edited by catzmeow; 07-17-2008 at 07:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 07:56 AM
kronikcope kronikcope is offline
Commentator
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ohio
Age: 26
Posts: 909
usa us ohio
kronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to beholdkronikcope is a splendid one to behold
Credits: 3,498
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
The soldiers themselves knew and understood the military code of conduct that they were operating under. Blaming a private organization for knowingly violating the rules of the commitment you've made is simply absurd. You don't do that. If wrong-doing is occurrring, you report it, and take whatever steps necessary to be a person of conscience.

I know a few Blackwater employees. They all served multiple stints in Iraq and/or Afghanistan, and most served for 10+ years in direct combat roles in the Marines or the Army. They're all top-caliber. Blackwater is primarily in the people protection business right now. They are assigned to protect the safety of U.S. non-military personnel and Iraqi political leaders. The fact of the matter is that there are any number of state department and other non-military personnel in Iraq working hard to help establish systems to support self-governance. The military CANNOT do this job, and civilians are required to guide this process. BW employees protect their safety and ensure that they can do the jobs that are needed to support the peace. Attacks have been targeted specifically at Iraqi politicians and others who are trying to create administrative and government systems for the people of Iraq. These attacks are targeted by those who would like to see the Iraqi government fail, and the nation descend into chaos. These people do not want a democracy to emerge from their country, they want a THEOCRACY that would curtail the liberties of their religious rivals.

We simply do not have enough military personnel to fill all combat roles and protection details. And, these protection details require highly trained personnel who, if they were still active duty military, would be required in other areas. Any service member can only be assigned to a combat role for so many years of their service. And, after 10+ years, they have a right to leave military service if they so choose. Why should their expertise, however, be lost to us as a country? We need their skills, and we should be willing to pay for them.

You cannot have a transition to peace in Iraq while not protecting the American (and other UN agency) civilians and elected Iraqi officials.

And the fact remains that these democratically elected iraqi leaders are serving at significant risk to their own lives and those of their families. The more support they have to pursue their goals, the sooner we can get all of our people out.

Say what you want about BW, they do the job they're paid to do, at tremendous risk to their personnel, and they do it well...better than anyone else could do it at this point in time. How many of their protected people has BW lost, so far?

You are preaching to the choir, I spent 18 months with BW in Iraq.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 07:58 AM
catzmeow's Avatar
catzmeow catzmeow is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Florida
Age: 42
Posts: 16,206
usa us florida
catzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond reputecatzmeow has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 80,053
Send a message via Yahoo to catzmeow
Default

I have great respect for the guys I've known from BW, professionally. They are far better trained than any other contractor out there.
__________________
I'll get nicer when you get smarter.


Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 08:00 AM
Herkdriver's Avatar
Herkdriver Herkdriver is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 3,823
usa
Herkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 5,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by B L Zeebub View Post
Is the kind of freedom of speech and democracy you want to export to Iraq.

I am a British subject and I opposed this war, as then a senior member of the labour party I resigned from the party I love because of that (*)(*)(*)(*) Blair getting us into this hell.
I didn't know you were a professional politician.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 08:04 AM
catawba's Avatar
catawba catawba is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,369
catawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 18,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spare View Post
I have neither the time, nor the inclination, to wade thru the claptrap you call posts in order to find your errors. Feel free to do your own research.
Don't make claims you cannot back up, it just exposes your posts for what they are, ill-founded rants.
__________________
"I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center." - Kurt Vonnegut
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 08:05 AM
Herkdriver's Avatar
Herkdriver Herkdriver is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 3,823
usa
Herkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond reputeHerkdriver has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 5,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
The soldiers themselves knew and understood the military code of conduct that they were operating under. Blaming a private organization for knowingly violating the rules of the commitment you've made is simply absurd. You don't do that. If wrong-doing is occurrring, you report it, and take whatever steps necessary to be a person of conscience.
Blackwater employees don't fall under the UCMJ.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 08:23 AM
catawba's Avatar
catawba catawba is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,369
catawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond reputecatawba has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 18,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by catzmeow View Post
I have great respect for the guys I've known from BW, professionally. They are far better trained than any other contractor out there.

Then it doesn't speak too well of any other contractor out there:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc-2iVQwBSE&feature=related

__________________
"I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center." - Kurt Vonnegut
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The American Soldier is unfit for combat Heydrich4president Political Opinions & Beliefs 0 11-27-2007 03:27 AM
Letter From an Iraq Vet to the American people livefree Current Events 0 08-20-2005 01:13 PM
Pentagon sued by American Soldier Neonimbo Current Events 16 06-28-2005 10:27 PM
An Open Letter to A Dead Soldier ThereseM Political Opinions & Beliefs 44 06-25-2004 01:34 PM

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden