what's wrong with becoming Christian.....

....if it's as a way to save your life from addiction?



basically, we all have met one of these types.... they are the biggest partiers, high, drunks, if there is an addiction, they have it... if there is a drug, they've tried it. They ruin their lives, lose their jobs, in and out of prisons, lose their families.....


..... but then they find the Lord?


They become born again preacching against all the things they used to love doing.....



why do people object to that. I understand the argument "you're just a hypocrite...." but that eliminates the chance of a person to change. It seems some people are going to be addicted to something, be it the Lord, or Meth..... why not the Lord?


I have a former colleague... lost his teaching job over his addictions..... I had a coach's clinic with him in orlando one year and he about got us killed or arrested.... We were about to have to try to knock him out, and put him to bed in the hotel room so we didn't end up having to bail him out, and then have the news get wind of all the commotion amoung a teacher, and the questions we'd get about it when we got back home. He really went off the deep end later that school year and now can't ever get hired by another school

now he goes to my church. He sings and plays guitar with his wife who stuck by him (she is also a teacher and never got into any of that stuff)

Either way, he's 5 years sober now.... but church filled the void....


I hear it argued that that's not the right reason to be a Christian (to stay sober or in exchange for partying), I've heard the hypocrite argument.... but I ask,


Even if God isn't real...... which would you rather have? a drug addicted adult who can't take care of his kids or family, or a Christian who now has the strength to stay away from the things that caused him so much issue.......

for types like this.... what does it matter if the God he worships is imaginary, or not, so long as it keeps him clean and sober?

 

A Christian is "reborn"...meaning before we made that choice, we all did things that we now know are wrong. The proper definition for "hypocrite" is preaching against an act while committing that act.

But being a Christian doesn't mean we don't fall back and sin ....no Christian will say they are without sin.

 

well said. Excellent clarification on hypocrite, because I have heard born-agains be called that as they preach against what they USED to do....

FTR - I'm Christian, I'm not a person like I described above.... but at church yesterday, while watching my former colleague play, it made me think.... Even if I wasn't Christian.... I'd rather have "CC" pretend in a 'fake God' and live the life the way he currently is, rather than try to convince him that God was fake, and see him possibly slide back into old habits like he had previously done in his life prior to becoming born again.

 

there is a French phrase:

A chacun son gout.

which translates roughly as "each to his own taste".

IOW, if it works for somebody to embrace religious faith, great.

As an agnostic atheist, I applaud their "salvation thru faith", but that doesn't change my opinion of religious dogma an iota.

 

I understand aversions to organized religion.... but I'm just talking to the point people who hate religion to the point that they would rather try to convince a born again like I described, that there is no God, even if that belief is the only thing keeping that person from slipping back into a life of drug abuse, or depression, or whatever.


What's worse.... a preachy sober person, or a drug addict who loses his family due to his addiction?

 

I have seen many addicted Christians, there are many though that trade addiction in one thing for religion-aholic or work-aholic

addict get easily addicted to whatever they do...

.

 

absolutely... I agree with that.... but would you rather have a religion-aholic... vs a meth-aholic....

I mean, this applies to anything, not just Christianity....


If a person uses Scientology, belief in aliens, kharma, yoga or Ms Cleo to keep them clean.... I'm not going to go in and say "you are an idiot and weak willed if you think Ms Cleo is real...."

Instead, I'd rather them think her predictions were real if that was what they needed to stay clean.

 

I hear ya... but to downplay their beliefs because you don't agree with them would cause more harm potentially....


ie - "you're an idiot if you believe in the imaginary man upstairs keeps you off drugs.... you have a better chance of writing to Santa or the easter bunny" vs "I'm glad you found something that works for you.... here's what I believe......"


too often, many use the first tactic vs the second one.

 

Do you want to live next door to a Liquor Store or a Church?

This is my analysis of the atheist vs. religious debate.

 

uhmm...maybe, but addiction is addiction is addiction. What you're describing is I think what AA calls a "dry drunk". They're still addicted, but it's just to a different thing. Perhaps a more acceptable thing but if it harms them or others it's still not the idea.

If your friend were to leave his wife and family with no support and go off to be a missionary-priest, would you feel the same? Lots of kids with drug problems in the 60's joined cults, were they better off after years with no job or experience living as beggars?

 

course, sometimes addicts just add another addiction on to the list... many Christians still drink way to much

heck, we even have preachers molesting kids.... it's not a cure all for all bad things in the world

neither would I, but as of yet, no one has tried to push any of those on the American people though the government, through our schools.....

read my sig... if you believe strongly enough it will cure you... maybe it will

.

 

There is nothing wrong with a person being a Christian in and of itself. What is a problem is when one identifies them self as a Christian then say things like the following in a discussion about skirt length on women;

http://www.politicalforum.com/womens-rights/334490-judgment-skirt-legnth.html Post #2

Its kind of hard to take you seriously on spiritual matters after the whole hit it and quit statement... especially when you have a daughter of your own.

Churches do not represent Christianity... Christians like you do... and any negative judgment towards the religion is based upon the hypocrisy of its practitioners.

 

Then Christianity is a sham, like everything else that anyone ever called good.

 

I don't have a Facebook account, but my wife does. She has it so that she can keep in touch with our kids, who are now grown and gone. She's noticed that, among our acquaintances who have addictive behavior problems, she can tell when one has gotten themselves back into trouble again because they will begin singing the praises of the Lord Jesus on their Facebook page. That usually means that they're headed back to either jail or rehab again.

 

In either case the person is insane and unable to cope with reality unless he has a crutch of some type. Neither one of his addictions does anything positive to help him overcome his mental illness. He's still insane although his religious addiction might make him more tolerable to be around than his drug addiction.

 

still the butt-hurt huh? lol


what if I became Christian after I said that? am I not allowed to change my stance?

 

see, I don't know... it's like having a hobby.... I only smoke because I don't know what to do with my hands.... it's a habit, but if I take up knitting.... it keeps me from needing to put something like a cig in my hand....


Same with God... if that idea... imaginary or not, keeps you from falling off the wagon.... is it not real, or is it the motivation.


I think of it like a fat guy jogging.... is he ever going to get thin? maybe, maybe not.... but if it motivates him to live healthier, should I be telling him.... "you're never going to be healthy, you are a fat tub of lard and your boobs jiggle while you run" just to have him quit and fall back into the unhealthy lifestyle he had prior?

 

I haven't seen that, honestly. I see them piously "Praise the Lord, He is good" whenever they have something good happen to them, or they get a new job, or something.....


but I will say, many of people have either found the Lord, or pretended to find the Lord, in prisons.


I didn't say I would ever want my ex-collegue to teach ever again.... He was really messed up at one time, and knowing his personality, he could slip off anytime (I hope he doesn't), but I'd rather him not fail the kids like he did the last time he slipped up. But, if religion helps keep him sober.... I don't see how pointing out that believing in God is "insane" (like wyrd of Gawd said)


I'd rather have an insane Christian not ruining his and his loved one's lives, than an insane coke-head, who destroys the family home while high.

 

Are you saying that you were not a Christen when you posted the hit it and quit statement on Dec 10 2013? Do you now recant your hit it and quit statement?

 

but to seriously answer that... I was speaking more from a "I would hit it and quit it... (as in back in the day)" sort of thing. I have never claimed I was innocent back in my youth, or even in my mid-30s right after my divorce.


When looking for women.... a short skirt told me things about a woman, and what they were interested in more-so than a girl wearing something more conservative. just like wearing a tie tells a potential employer something about me that is different than if I show up to an interview wearing blue-jeans.

 

False dichotomy. I've known Christians with no addiction problems who nevertheless destroyed theirs and their loved ones' lives. I've known cocaine users who did not.

 

I do feel (now) that I had backslidden some. There was a time when I ran through a bunch of women after my divorce.... a "making up for lost time" sorta thing. I still prayed... I still believed.... didn't mean I always did what I should.

I'm remarried now, so my days of covorting naive 20 y.o.'s is behind me, hopefully for good as the only 2 reasons I would ever need to pursue naive 20 yo's again is if my 2nd marriage fails, or my wife dies somehow and I backslide again....



but make no mistake about it, the point in that thread you dug back up from, what, over a year ago? lol..... is that there are plenty of guys out there tonight, that are doing the things I did for the reasons I did them.


Should a girl in a short dress be objectified.... no
Should it matter if I wear a tie to an interview, as opposed to jeans, does it change my qualifications.... no



but reality says, BOTH matter

 

I know... I'm not saying that doesn't happen.


But for the anectdotal examples like my ex-collegue..... where it seems to be important..... why bash their faith... the reason they aren't punching holes in the walls of the family home while doped out of their gourds because you don't believe? Like I said... if calling a psychic hotline is what kept him from doing all those things.... what point is it that I tell him how fake Ms Cleo is? What purpose does that serve because I don't believe in psychics other than for my own selfish purposes?

 

I don't bash anyone's faith. Neither do I admire using false religious faith as a means to attempt escaping punishment for bad behavior.