Debate: Israel – victim or aggressor?

Discussion in 'Debates & Contests' started by Margot, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    You do?? That's when and where it all begain. It's something called "The history of the conflict". Or, don't you believe in looking at the whole thing???
     
  2. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean?

    LOL This refutes what I said... how?

    If you are referring to the Arab-Israeli War of 48, the Arab's started it. If you are referring to conflict in the Palestinian territories, it would be impossible to say who started it, though as I said only the Israelis perpetrated ethnic cleansing.
     
  3. creation

    creation New Member

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    Good debating Megadeath. A pity Khalil isnt involved here yet. Hes got loads of detail.

    Truth Detector and Rev A are great examples of pro israel lunacy here.

    TD will usually be quite good, but hell make sweaping un backed accusations against millions of people and wont back any of the detailed history up, thus losing the argument.

    Youll find Rev A often diverts his arguments into irrelevancies as he sees fit.

    Then hell tell you thats what youre doing.

    Hell make many claims, will back about 10% up. And he'll throw in a few biblical justifications too.

    Theres really not a capable pro israeli debater, instead theres just a collection of American bigots making a few snide comments before leaving the discussion.
     
    MegadethFan and (deleted member) like this.
  4. creation

    creation New Member

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    Israelis have never ever fought a defensive war.

    In 47/ 48 I think youll find Israelis crossed into the arab state before the arab powers crossed into the jewish state. Theyve never ever left. Exactly as they intended..
     
  5. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, however I dont think the Arab states had a right to attack Israel at that point. If they sought to protect Palestinians, they could have, but this was not their intention. With regards to the Pals they wanted to take control of their land as well in most cases.
     
  6. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think they did not have the right to at that point?
     
  7. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    Because there were people in the land designated as Israel who wanted a nation I do not believe that right should have been deprived them.
     
  8. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    One can't overlook Israel's unilateral declaration of independence (instead of working out a settlement with the Palestinians, they disregarded them and went their own way).
     
  9. Wabbit

    Wabbit New Member

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    These questions are to anyone willing to answer. I know Margot did not write the article she posted and cited. That being said, here goes:

    So it belonged to the UK, not the people living there already? Or it was stolen from the people living there already by the British? That paragraph doesn't make sense to me. And if we're going back several thousand years, I guess anyone living in the U.S. or Canada needs to pack up and move out because we definitely stole this land from the natives.

    Recent as in when? I've heard this argument before, but I've never heard anyone put a time frame on "recent." I did, however, run across some WWI war posters that use the name Palestine, and they were sponsored by "The Tourist Office of the Jewish Agency for Palestine Jerusalem." Pretty wild, huh?

    Here's a link, but you have to click through quite a few posters to find it:
    http://firstworldwar.com/posters/usa2.htm

    Does WWI count as "recent" or are we talking anything not dating back to when the Israelis were actually called Israelites would be considered "recent"?


    When I put myself in the shoes of the Palestinians at that time, I can't help but think I'd certainly do the same thing. If someone came to my house and told me to leave so someone else could live there, I'd certainly not tuck my tail and run away!

    When I put myself in the shoes of the transplanted Jews at that time, I would most definitely want to defend myself and family, but I feel I'd completely understand the hostility toward my being there, on someone else's land regardless of how I got there.
     
  10. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    here's the proof:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    The books were written by Israelis who condemn the racist imperialism of their government - therefore, nobody can say these writings constitute "anti-semitism" or hatred for Jews.
     
  11. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Finding Far Left Jews who are non-Practicing anti-Zionists is easier than finding Israel on a Map.
     
  12. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Finding conservative Jews who oppose the Zionist state are even more visible:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Just as Finding Amereicans who hate America & it's Racist Bigoted Homophobic Imperialist Colonialist Past is Easy ,especially with Minorities...:queen:
     
  14. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    I guess that's why the KKK burns Jesus Christ in effigy every time they have a meeting and why their fellow right wing extremist friends in politics want to shut down the government.

    Gordon Kahl:

    [​IMG]


    Timothy McVeigh:

    [​IMG]


    David Koresh:

    [​IMG]


    ... and don't forget Eric Rudolph!
     
  15. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    It's the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan (KKKK) AND THEY WERE LITIGATED OUTTA Existence in 1986 by the SPLC all other modern incarnations of Klans are Wannabees.
     
  16. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    You lie like a dog, Cre;


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_Aden_pogrom
    Following November 29, 1947 vote by the UN on partition of the British Mandate for Palestine, wide scale protests took place across the Arab countries and communities, with Aden being no exception. Shortly after their beginning, the protests in Aden erupted into unrestrained bloody violence against the Jews, triggered by the false accusation of Jews for murder of two local girls.

    The pogrom, that erupted on December 2, 1947, was devastating - 82 Jews were murdered and 76 wounded;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War
    Five of the seven countries of the Arab League at that time, namely Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria, backed by Saudi Arabian and Yemenite contingents invaded[91] territory in the former British Mandate of Palestine on the night of 14–15 May 1948.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_war
    The war began when the coalition launched a joint surprise attack on Israel on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in Judaism, which coincided with the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. Egyptian and Syrian forces crossed ceasefire lines to enter the Israeli-held Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights respectively, which had been captured and occupied since the 1967 Six-Day War.

    There are three examples of your beloved Arabs attacking without provacation and the Jews fighting a defensive war.
     
  17. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War
    Benny Morris has argued that although, by the end of 1947, the Palestinians "had a healthy and demoralising respect for the Yishuv's military power", they believed that in decades or centuries "the Jews, like the medieval crusader kingdoms, would ultimately be overcome by the Arab world".[41]

    On the eve of the war, the number of Arab troops likely to be committed to the war was about 23,000 (10,000 Egyptians, 4,500 Jordanians, 3,000 Iraqis, 3,000 Syrians, 2,000 ALA volunteers, 1,000 Lebanese and some Saudi Arabians), in addition to the irregular Palestinians already present. The Yishuv had 35,000 troops of the Haganah, 3,000 of Stern and Irgun and a few thousand armed settlers.

    And you don't think the Arab nations didn't supply weapons???



    .[/QUOTE]LOL This refutes what I said... how?.[/QUOTE]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War
    The forces of Syria and Egypt launched attacks outside of the proposed Arab section of the Partition Plan.[92] Jordan invaded the proposed "Corpus Separatum", which had yet to be instituted, including the Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem. The official motives for their intervention were set out in a statement[93] of 15 May 1948 :


    It doesn't refute it, it just shows who, what, when, where, and how. You left that out. The fact that 5 Arab nations attacked Israel who hadn't been a nation for 24 hours shows the mind set of the Arabs in the area.


    .[/QUOTE]If you are referring to the Arab-Israeli War of 48, the Arab's started it. If you are referring to conflict in the Palestinian territories, it would be impossible to say who started it, though as I said only the Israelis perpetrated ethnic cleansing.[/QUOTE]


    You think so???

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Palestine_riots
    The 1920 Palestine riots, or Nabi Musa riots, took place in British Mandate of Palestine April 4–7, 1920 in and around the Old City of Jerusalem.

    The events coincided with and are named after the Christian/Muslim Easter holiday Nabi Musa and followed rising tensions in Arab-Jewish relations over the implications of Zionist immigration, tensions which coincided with attacks on outlying Jewish settlements in the Galilee.


    http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_riots_1929.php
    On Friday, August 23, Arab mobs attacked Jews in Jerusalem, Motza, Hebron, Safed, Jaffa, and other parts of the country. The Old City of Jerusalem was hit particularly hard


    Need I continue or does this establish the fact as to who started the terrorist attacks???
     
  18. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    Funny, the last time I looked the majority of old palestine was an Arab nation.
     
  19. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    All the flys buzzed away when sunlight hit them ??:D
     
  20. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    To start with "Palestine" was NEVER a nation, country, or State. Take a look at a 1920 map of "Palestine".

    http://www.justicenow4israel.com/mandatemap.html

    Please tell me who has the majority of the land in the area known as "Palestine" today. You will find the southern sections of both Syria and Lebanon made up of northern Palestine. Trans-Jordan, now the nation, Jordan, took 77% of the area known as Palestine. Do you hear any of the so called "Palestinians" objecting and demanding their "Land" back??? 47% of the area that was left the British put in a land bank called "Crown Lands" because nobody owned it. Israel didn't take anybodys land, the people on the land were just now Israeli citizens up to the point they left and or picked up arms against Israel.
     
  21. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Dude your on Fire , I like this guy !:judge:
     
  22. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    Oh, yes, they were real bullies in 1948 were they not when 5 Arab nations attacked them?

    They were real bullies when Egypt tryed to cut off their port in 1956 which is an act of war. They were real bullies when Nassar was proclaiming that he was going to wiipe Israel off the face of the earth in 1967, right?? They were real bullies when the Arab armies hit them in 1973, right??? They were real bullies when they finally go tired of palestinian terrorist attacking them from Lebanon and attacked back, right??

    Here, go read all about it;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_terrorist
     
  23. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    Wow he makes this fun (Finally):)
     
  24. Wabbit

    Wabbit New Member

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    Huh? That BOLDED PART OF YOUR RESPONSE makes no sense to me.

    Why not answering my other questions?

    You have not answered any of them, as of yet.

    Also, you only need to put 1 ? or ! or . for me (or anyone else) to understand.
    Just saying.
     
  25. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Who invited them to invade and settle in Palestine? If someone stole the lunch of 5 kids and they joined up and fought him off, would they be in the wrong?
     

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