America Has The Richest Poor In The World

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by red states rule, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Johhny speaks for the liberals/socialists when he says, "So what?" The "poor" being well off doesn't concern the leftists. Power concerns them. Hence, so what?
     
  2. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Exactly where did I say "So what?" And what was the context of me saying that? (I've used that phrase many times.)

    Yes, some socialists (and even Conservatives) often agree with me. I typically point out practical approaches and real solutions. But I don't need to speak for anyone... they can (as usual) take/leave what I opine about.

    And how do YOU define "well off"? (You do need to define that, for your comments to make any real sense.)
     
  3. siddhartha

    siddhartha New Member

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    If the premise of this tripe is that a family of 3 living on 17k have it pretty good and they can do with a lot less.....um.....I don't really know what to say about that. Obviously those commenting have never had to live like that. I think it would be fun to watch them try.

    I think the guy who did the documentary "supersize me" did a program on just that. He and his fiancé lived for a month on minimum wage. It was eye opening.
     
  4. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    In response to that, simply look at some of my earlier posts.

    The biggest problem I see most times when people bash things like Minimum Wage, is that they always look at big cities when screaming how horrible it is. They look at somebody in New York or Los Angeles, where the minimum wage comes nowhere even close to allowing somebody to make ends meet.

    And to see that in action, look around many areas of the South East, where the "Katrina Exodus" has been living at for years. I know several people who were relocated to South-East Alabama from New Orleans was wiped out. And all but 1 remained in the area afterwards.

    Most of them told me that it was because of better job opportunities and a lower cost of living that they stayed there. I know I had no problem making my rent of $200-400 a month.

    The biggest thing I can encourage people to do who are trapped in low income jobs in big cities to do is to move. I myself moved from Los Angeles to SE Alabama. My income dropped in half, but I was able to make my money go much farther because things like rent dropped from 50-75%. My car insurance dropped by 60%. My monthly gas useage dropped by over 80% (instead of a 40+ mile commute each way in heavy traffic, I drove around 5 miles each way in light traffic).

    I do not believe it is "society" or "the system" that makes a large percentage of the poor. It is certainly compounded by trying to live in big cities, with a high cost of living and less employment opportunities.
     
  5. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US is the worst of all advanced countries in dealing with those the capitalists have robbed, but the key point is not the degree to which their victims are near starvation but the existence of a caste society in which, despite all the lies you tell them, they can never advance. Deeply unequal societies are deeply unhappy societies - for both the thieves and the mugs.
     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Then how do some people go from being homeless one year, and making $40k+ the next year?
     
  7. Snazzmeister

    Snazzmeister New Member

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    I'd rather pay them to sit at home than come out to my farm and break a $100k piece of equipment. Been there, done that, no thanks.
     
  8. Subdermal

    Subdermal Banned

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    Non sequitur. Not having 'fun' living that way in no way reflects on any obligation for society to give such people more. They must help themselves.

    And before you attempt to spray more detritus on the conversation, I did live as you're suggesting it would be fun to see, only in my case, our family income was about that inflation-adjusted level in a family of 6.

    It also a unique exposure of your own ideological motivations for you to admit that it would be 'fun' to see someone living at that level, regardless who they are, or were.

    For who? Speaking as someone who has had absolute first hand experience living in an ultra-low income household - and then who was homeless for a time - it is clear and apparent that your frame of reference is skewed.

    The person who had a higher standard of living and then lost it has a far harder time than those who have only known being poor.

    When you're poor, your appreciation of things is different. You don't know or understand that because you're projecting your present status on the discomfort of losing it. In short, you really don't know.

    My family was poor because my father had bad habits. He was lazy and undisciplined, among other problems. I know why we were poor, but while I lived it, I had no really sorrow or pity for my situation, and most who find themselves in a similar situation do not either - most feelings they have revolve around their own understanding that nearly the entire reason they are in that situation is due to themselves.

    And those who act on such feelings and route them constructively leave that circumstance, as I did. Those who do not have no one to blame but themselves - if they have such feelings - and (if they don't), they are content.

    So leave them be, and stop projecting your pity on those who do not require it.
     
  9. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They live in some other country, I expect, or sell drugs.
     
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    How about either going to school, learning new skills, or being able to get back to work?

    Personally, I find it rather insulting that you think that people in this country must either leave or turn to crime in order to do that. And it shows that you have absolutely no concept of how things work in the United States.

    And yes, I have done that personally myself. In 2000, I found myself out of work for 5 months, and ended up on the street. I found placement in a homeless facility for veterans, and they let me live there while I went to school for 6 months.

    At the end of that time (the school was all paid for by government grants available to anybody) I was able to get back to work within a month, making $24 an hour ($48k a year). My wife was not homeless, but she used a combination of grants and our own money to pay for nursing school, and makes a good living also.

    And there are companies all over the country that are doing almost anything they can to get qualified employees. A trucking company near where I live (Mesilla Valley Transportation ) is offering free driver training, and a 2 year contract for anybody that is qualified. And a major natural gas company (Chesapeake Energy) is also offering many jobs with free training and relocation expenses paid.

    There are jobs out there, but many people simply do not qualify for them by their own life choices. I know that when I was involved in the hiring process for computer technicians at a major corporation, we had to turn away between 10-25% of applicants for either drug use, criminal records or driving record.

    I have only recently started to send out my resume, but already have 3 companies wanting to interview me as soon as I arrive in California next month. And 9 years ago when I moved to Alabama I had a job within 3 weeks that I held for 5 years (I would still be there today if I had not re-entered the military).

    My wife moved to California last week, and already has a job that she starts in 2 weeks. And we will both be working in an area where the unemployment rate is 11.1%.

    There are jobs out there. In fact, in places like North Dakota the unemployment rate is around 3%. And the same is true in Northern Texas. I believe the biggest problems with employment is either personal background, lazyness, refusal to learn a new trade, refusal to "start at the bottom", or refusal to relocate.
     
  11. red states rule

    red states rule New Member Past Donor

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    Gee maybe they get off the butts and enjoy the benfits of capitalism and the free market?

    and they realize the left only wants to shackle them into a life of never ending dependence and decide that is not for them?
     
  12. siddhartha

    siddhartha New Member

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    Liberals want to give them a hand. Republicans give them the boot.
     
  13. siddhartha

    siddhartha New Member

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    Seems to me, you're the one doing the projecting. I've been rich. I've been poor.....and not poor as a little kid that doesn't know anything else.

    One who knows poverty should have more empathy. There are many things in life that are beyond our control, like a lousy family situation. Some can persevere all by themselves and they should certainly be commended. Others want to but need help. And we all know that there are those that are unemployable. That's a statistical constant.

    Turning you back on those that have the ability and desire is both morally wrong and counter productive.
     
  14. red states rule

    red states rule New Member Past Donor

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    More like libs want to give them a King size Sleep Number bed and send the bill to those of us still lucky enough to have a job in the Obama economy
     
  15. red states rule

    red states rule New Member Past Donor

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    I will ask you - libs have spent ober $9 trillion in the last 40 plus years of trying to wipe poverty from America. they have come up with cradle to grave social programs that gobble up more and more of the budget

    Yet we are told poverty has never been worse

    What happened to all that money and what is the left's exit plan on their War on Poverty?
     
  16. Mialily

    Mialily New Member

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    I agree I can't wrap my hand around this country is in such bad shape but I still see Iphone/Ipads/Macbooks all over the place. StarBucks full of people drinking 7 dollar coffee.


    Yeah, things are not great, but not great in America is awesome compared to some other places.
     
  17. red states rule

    red states rule New Member Past Donor

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    Many come here for a better life since they know with capitalism it is their best shot at accumlating personal wealth

    But others come here knowing that libs will give them the shirt off my back
     
  18. Mialily

    Mialily New Member

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    I agree. Although conservatives want to horde money in a bank account and not pay this country the money they owe for letting them accumulate that much wealth. It is loose loose or loose with politics in this country atm.
     
  19. red states rule

    red states rule New Member Past Donor

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    What do mean "hord"?

    The IRS numbers show 1% of the taxpayers pay over 40% of the income taxes collected

    While more then 50% of the people pay ZERO income taxes and some get a
    "refund" on taxes they did n ot even pay

    Of course that "refund" is paid by the top 1% that the left loves to hate
     
    Rapunzel and (deleted member) like this.
  20. Mialily

    Mialily New Member

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    I mean when you can collect a personal fortune of 17.5 billion dollars in less then 10 years (Mark Zuckerberg) that is a bit much.

    I believe a you pay more for the more this country does for you.
    Any other country and Mark/Bill/Warren/Walton none of these people could have collected nearly as much money as they have in such a sort time.

    I'm not saying dead beats who don't want to work deserve their money, but are soldiers do, and they should see that they can help instead of trying to continue too horde more money and get richer, but actually try to fix the country that both sides of this have broken.


    The rich get the most out of this country.

    The poor get a free mediocre life out of this country.

    The middle man gets almost nothing but both sides want from them.
    The rich want us to buy their overpriced products so they can get richer.
    The poor want us to pay more taxes so they can live a life without working.

    The rich also get back any money they pay the middle in buying their products so its almost like we are a resource to both sides.


    Either way I'm getting screwed.
     
  21. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Then why was my period of homelessness during the Clinton administration?

    And trust me, I got out of it with no help from the government. I got out of that situation myself.
     
  22. siddhartha

    siddhartha New Member

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    Well, you've made a good argument why they should pay some more.

    42 percent of financial wealth is controlled by the top 1 percent. We would need to go back to the Great Depression to see such lopsided data.
     
  23. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    I don't believe poverty in the US is being hyped; corporate welfare in the US has even paid multimillion dollar bonuses.

    And, speaking of social programs, why can we still afford a wasteful, War on Drugs that has not worked for over thirty years; why are the alleged conservatives not complaining about that boondoggle and generational form of theft?
     
  24. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They're all on drugs, obviously!
     
  25. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The following facts about the 46.2 million persons defined as "poor" as presented based upon the article by the biased, unreliable, conservative propaganda tool known as "Heritage":

    20%, or 9.24 million, poor household do not even have airconditioning.

    8%, or 3.69 million poor households, do not even have a microwave, which you can get at Walmart for $30.

    More than 1/4, or more than 11 million, do not even have a car or truck.

    1/3, or 15.24 million, do not even have cable.

    1/3, or 15.24 million, do not even have a DVD player you can buy for $35.

    1/2, or 23.1 million, do not even have a personal computer, which you can buy for about $200.

    Less than 1/2, or 23.1 million, don't even have a video game system for their kids, which you can buy for $100.

    57%, or 26.3 million, do not even have Internet access.

    In the last decade, the living conditions of the poor have stagnated and declined. Consumer items that were luxuries or significant purchases for the middle class a few decades ago have become commonplace as still out of reach for millions or tens of millions in poor households.

    Liberals use the declining relative prices of many amenities to argue that it is no big deal that poor households have air conditioning, computers, cable TV, and wide-screen TV. They contend, polemically, that even though most poor families may have a house full of modern conveniences, millions of the poor still suffer from substantial deprivation in basic needs, such as food and housing.

    In reality, this is very true.

    Although the mainstream media broadcast alarming stories about widespread and severe hunger in the nation, in reality, most of the poor do not experience hunger or food shortages. The U.S. Department of Agriculture collects data on these topics in its household food security survey. For 2009, the survey showed:

    4%, or 1.85 million, state that their children went hungry at some time.

    17%, or 7.8 million, reported not having enough food to eat.

    18%, or 8.3 million, reported being hungry at least some time in the prior year doue to lack of money or food.

    Over the course of a year, 4% or 1.85 million, of poor persons become temporarily homeless.

    9.5 percent, or 4.4 million, of the poor live in mobile homes or trailers.

    58%, or 26.7 million, do not own their own homes.

    6%, or 2.8 million of poor households are overcrowded.

    By Heritage's own report, tens of millions of the poor had insufficient funds to meet all essential needs and to obtain medical care for family members throughout the year whenever needed.

    Of course, not every one of the 46.8 million poor Americans are going hungry or homeless. But millions do. The poor clearly struggle to make ends meet, and tens of millions cannot even afford simple, basic inexpensive things like cable TV, airconditioning, or even a DVD player, much less "luxuries" like a car that in most areas is needed for a job or to go to school.

    The average poor person is far from affluent, and for millions of these Americans, their lifestyle includes going without basis needs, knowing the feeling of not having enough to eat, and the insecurity of not even having a roof over their heads, and is far from the image of comfort and security that conservative propaganda outlets like "Heritage" and their acolytes would have you believe.

    And in a country with such gigantic wealth and richness as America has, they do it just so they can justify ever lower taxes on the richest in this country, who are paying the lowest effective tax rates in decades, who have grown relatively richer by multiples over everyone else since the "Reagan Revolution", so they can buy ever bigger megayachts and more homes and fancy cars.

    Disgusting, IMO.

    Thanks for reminding me again why I am a liberal.
     

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