Libertarian Pudding Tastes Good!!

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by Xerographica, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    Is this the advice you give your customers?

    Do you know the managerial class has been hugely downsized?

    Make vs buy is a tool to deal with assymetrical information.

    You need to get out more.
     
  2. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    My customers expect me to refer to economic reality. I don't find it a difficult proposition
     
  3. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    I hope I go up against your customers in the market - easy pickings.
     
  4. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Its a shame that you're not. You'd make my job so much easier! You allow personal bias to corrupt your viewpoint; rather than adopting a position based on the evidence. Rationalisation rather than rationality!
     
  5. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    I have yet to see your evidence, in your posts, or in the real world.
     
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Read up on Coase and transaction costs, then get back to me. Your lack of content, when it comes to economics dialogue, may offend people!
     
  7. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    So far, only you. But, then I am among good company.
     
  8. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I'm not offended. I expect it from the utopians. Read anything on Coase yet?
     
  9. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    I read up on Coase the last time you brought him up.

    I don't see his theorem applied in real world. Government adds cost to transactions, and regulates instead of letting the market seek the best solution.

    What is your point?
     
  10. Xerographica

    Xerographica Member

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    Wow, just noticed that you've posted nearly 20,000 times here! That's so strange that you had such a difficult time answering me when I asked you whether your perspective matters. Clearly you must believe your perspective matters enough to have shared it so many times!

    Let me ask you another question. Hopefully it won't be as difficult as my previous question. When you post on these forums...are there transaction costs involved?
     
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You didn't 'read up' very well. I'm assuming you've got as far as the Coase Theorem. That's typically used to suggest that Pigovian taxes can be avoided because externalities can be treated purely as a problem with property rights. That's bogus though! Its actually an understanding of the importance of transaction costs. And its those transaction costs that you need to understand. You'd then be able to understand the existence of the firm (to Coase- and the New Institutionalists- a hierarchical mechanism adopting vertical integration and the associated economic planning)
     
  12. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    As always, you were unclear.

    Your transactions costs far exceed your value - bye.
     
  13. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    Planning isn't the same within/out the market. Planning done in the private sector gets rapid and guiding feedback in regards to their decisions, politicians are only evaluated during election time and even then it seldom provides accurate feedback.
     
  14. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    The point was that planning occurs everywhere, often the costs of decision making are more expensive than just mandating a decision, hence the visible hand of management.

    The difference between them is that one is forced to react quickly to the feedback it receives from the market, the government is seldom held accountable for their mismanagement, or even worse they prop up failures when the market has provided clear feedback on it's preferences.
     
  15. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    Under that definition, even the make / mandate is a decision, with transaction costs.

    Have you ever seen an executive mandate a decision? I have done it many times, just like I have called meetings to make a decision.

    Successful businesses spend the cost of making a decision when they believe that cost is less than a bad decision. All to optimize profits (some, short term, some long term).
     
  16. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, but often even those are outweighed by the costs of information gathering and decision making.

    Right, my point exactly. Planning isn't an activity unique to the state.

    "Spend the cost" - no idea what you're saying here. The premise still remains, islands of planning emerge from "free market", if they were without flaw, this would never occur.
     
  17. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    The tech boom / bust was an underdamped feedback look, caused by a delay between the action and reaction. MIT's Beer Game is based on the impact of that delay.

    Politicians can make bad decisions and get re-elected by making the opponent look like they would make worse decisions. And, both parties put up enough idiots for that to work. (I want "None of the Above" on the ballot - if it gets the most votes - the seat remains vacant.)

    I don't see many companies that succeed by advertising their product isn't as crappy as thee competiton.
     
  18. parcus

    parcus New Member

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    If you consider risks as a market flaw, then you are faded to believing that the free market is flawed and erroneously claim that government are not subject to the same risks, or erroneously think that it will (luckly) make the decisions with the best outcomes.
     
  19. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    If I am going to spend $250K to design and tool a product for a customer, based on their forecast, I'm going to verify:

    The customer has provided accurate forecasts in the past

    That the product the customer is building is likely to meet the forecast.

    That our price will be low enough to capture a significant market share (when you sell millions of pieces, no customer goes sole source).

    Why do you think the free market is devoid of planning?

    There isn't an overall coordinator, but most buyers and sellers plan what to buy, what to sell, and change those plans frequently.
     
  20. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    And because it was allowed to evolve without interference continues to be vibrant, winners and losers were chosen, and not arbitrarily.

    Yup, again that was my point when I said that planning isn't the same inside/outside the market.

    If there was a product you had no choice but to purchase, you probably would.

    Not a lot of sense was made here.... but their both flawed and had you read what I've written you'd have known that already. The market and the state are symbiotic and flawed.
     
  21. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You're overplaying the difference. Both are characterised by error from distributed knowledge. Perhaps the biggest difference is that hierarchy is more inflamed in the private sector, given the use of the internal labour market to ensure compliance. That would suggest greater risk of error within private sector planning
     
  22. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    All very expensive, information is hard to find and knowing what information is valuable is often hard to determine, that's why management turns to planning.

    What? I understand your words but feel like I'm talking past you, the market is most assuredly not devoid of planning.

    ...sigh... hence my mention of "islands of planning"
     
  23. Not Amused

    Not Amused New Member

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    Exactly.

    The best example I can think of is health insurance. Not post Obamacare, just post regulated to death....
     
  24. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    Difference being that one must bear an immediate burden from one and the other may never manifest themselves. So yes, they both results from inherit flaws, but the market is quick to label the losers.

    That sounds incredibly hard to support considering that less bearucrats represent more voters and delegate more dollars than ever in the history of man, talk about steep hierarchy!

    So the state planners decisions not only have a completely missing feedback loop, but affect a greater proportion of the populace than private decisions.
     
  25. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    It's not required currently and we still see insurers trying to reshape themselves to connect with those they insure. Kaiser is a good example, and the number 1 rated company in the US is an insurer... USAA.
     

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