God particle discovery is a win for science over superstition

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by rstones199, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    Scott Roeder murdered Dr. George Tiller in 2009. Reinventing the term "doctor" does not change this.
     
  2. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    A doctor is someone who holds a doctorate, and physicians who are doctors typically hold an MD, Medicinæ Doctor. A "healer" (if I understand your meaning correctly) who does not hold an MD is a physician at best.

    I'm interested to see how the discussion on the question goes on, so I'll post an example. I apologise if there previously in this discussion has been some specification which makes this example invalid.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_George_Tiller
     
  3. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    I'm not condoning the killing of anyone other than criminals that have been sentenced to execution...but how do pro-aborts justify one killing but not another. Perhaps The doctor was mot sentient? maybe he was a drain on his mother? not saying he was, just noting the paradox.
     
  4. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    sen·tient (snshnt, -sh-nt)
    adj.
    1. Having sense perception; conscious: "The living knew themselves just sentient puppets on God's stage" (T.E. Lawrence).
    2. Experiencing sensation or feeling.

    Not sure what you are trying to say, but the question you asked about an extremist Christian killing a doctor has been answered.
     
  5. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    Dr. George Tiller was shot down during church service on Sunday. He was a member of a lutheran church. His murderer Scott Roeder sympathized with a so called "freemen-movement". I don't know what a "freemen-movement" is. Try to explain to me why you are thinking Mr. Scott Roeder is a member of a christian church. In Germany the newspapers wrote he's an extreme right-wing. We are associating "extreme right wing" with Hitler and his criminals and not with Christians. To use a weapon in a church is also not something what a Christian would do.

    http://youtu.be/BTl3xnrfSiU
     
  6. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    –A profile in today’s Wichita Eagle quote ex-wife Lindsey Roeder as saying that when Scott Roeder (latest mug from the Wichita Eagle’s arraignment story today) turned to extremism and religion a decade ago he became “adamant about his Old Testament beliefs and observed the Sabbath from Friday night through Saturday. Nothing could get in the way of that. Not soccer games when his son was younger. Nothing.”

    But she noted that last Friday night was different, and he took his 22-year-old son to see “Star Trek.” (I went on Saturday, but the film didn’t make me do anything crazy. Yet.) “In hindsight, my son said, ‘He was saying goodbye to me.’ “

    –She also gave the AP a keeper of a quote: “That’s all he cared about is anti-abortion, ‘the church this, God is this,’ yada yada.”

    –A Time magazine story today also notes that Roeder’s car had was “decorated with a red rose — an antiabortion emblem — and a Jesus fish.” Not much there.

    –A Monday New York Times story quotes Roeder’s ex-wife as saying Roeder was looking for a ”scapegoat” to blame for his troubles. ”First it was taxes — he stopped paying. Then he turned to the church and got involved in anti-abortion,” she said.


    Read more: http://blog.beliefnet.com/pontifications/2009/06/scott-roeders-mystery-religion.html#ixzz20n6HtP2v

    No one suggested he was a member of a church. That was your superfluous addition to the assertions he was an extremist Christian. There does not seem to be any doubt of that.
     
  7. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    That is called the "no true Christian" fallacy, commonly used by Christians to deny any scurrilous activity by their brethren. Much the same fudging applies to Hitler, who was never excommunicated by the Roman Catholic church.
     
  8. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    I know this. Nevertheless the respect for a doctor is not coming from his academic studies but from his job - and his job is to be a healer and not to be a killer. A doctor should not do any abortion - except he has to save the life of the mother.

    http://youtu.be/aEPZxf3l8hI
     
  9. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    If you would be a German I would say now to you "You are offending your own intelligence"

    http://youtu.be/CizudgiRiOs
     
  10. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    What has this to do with the christian religion?

    http://youtu.be/qAi-LLcNKbU
     
  11. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    Do you understand the hoops that women have to jump through in order to get a late term abortion? Tiller saw his practice as a positive service to these women. You are free to disagree, but don't use your reinvention of the term "doctor" to excuse or even mitigate the crime of Scott Roeder.
    You don't have to like it, but abortion is legal in this country. Tiller's occupation does not mean Roeder was justified, and nothing you have said changes that he was an extremist Christian.
     
  12. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    Put it in context with the rest of the post you snipped and a moron can see the relevance.
     
  13. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    Sorry - but someone who is not a member of a church is not able to be a Christian.

    http://youtu.be/ikHM5-UzqGU
     
  14. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    It's nonsense what you say. The victim was a member of a christian church - the murderer was not a member of a christian church. Your example is not justifying your propagandism. It's a terrible story - a story full of deepest despair - but it's not in the center of the christian belief (faith) or the christian church[es] - it's in the center of a hopeless politics what gives so many human beings no chance to survive any longer. It seems to me everyone in this story - except the aborted children and the people in the church who had to watch this murder - tried to become the own god - that's the spiritual problem I'm able to see. Kyrie eleison. Help us dear god.

    http://youtu.be/4U6D9q6L3uw
     
  15. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I wasn't discussing from where anyone gets their respect, I was challenging your questioning of whether or not abortion doctors such as George Tiller are doctors. You made some claim up about them not being doctors unless they are healers, which I challenged.

    George Tiller's job was to be a Medical director, a job description which includes leadership and oversight rather than direct healing. Even so, physicians often kill things like parasites or bacteria, which means that your assertion that there should be no killing is false. The obvious objection to that, the assertion that foetuses are humans is what I believe the meat of the issue to be.

    It is my belief that his actions are based on a belief that foetuses are not humans, which is unrelated to whether or not whether or not his job is to be a healer.
     
  16. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    Wherever two or three gather in My name, there shall I be in the midst of them.

    No church necessary, according to Christ. Are you a higher authority?
     
  17. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    In a recent interview, Roeder said he “had become a believer” around 1992.

    “I converted, born again to Christianity,” he said. “I guess you could say Messianic, or turned to Jesus, Yeshua, as my Savior.” He said Messianic believers such as himself had gone “back to our Hebrew roots.”

    Roeder said he preferred going to a study group instead of a more formal religious setting because “organized religion is 501©3 tax-exempt organizations, which are businesses.”

    “We stay away from them,” he said, adding that religious organizations receiving tax-exempt status become corrupt because they are beholden to the government.

    Roeder and other members of the Bible study used to attend the Or HaOlam Messianic Congregation in Overland Park but split off, some said, because the leaders did not want to hear their talk about Freemasons and other “secret societies.”

    They also didn’t approve of Or HaOlam being registered as a nonprofit corporation with the state of Kansas.


    Seems like he was affiliated with an organized group of self professing Christians.
    Next defense?
     
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Who would have thought? To engage in a religious belief is not enough? To belong to a church and not necessarily believe is enough?
     
  19. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    I'm a German - our systems are not comparable.

    The Mafia has also good positive services if you like to kill someone. But to be honest: I don't know what the job of Mr. Tiller was concrete. Some abortions are necessary but the most abortions are nothign else than than a big business with the death of human beings. I'm not able to accept that human beings have to die in masses on no reason.

    Why not? To kill a mass-murderer is normally not a crime - even if the laws of a country are covering such crimes.

    He was not a Christian. He tried to find help in the belief in god - but without other Christians he had no chance to find this help. A Christian has to be a member of a church.

    http://youtu.be/BJHnsedl_1w
     
  20. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    If you are German and have admitted you don't know much about our late term abortion laws, which was specifically what Tiller was involved in, then why are you claiming any authority in this conversation?
    Your declaration that one has to be a member of a church to be a Christian has been disproven with scripture already. In spite of that truth, it has also been shown that Roeder was a member of a regularly meeting group of people who described themselves as Messianic Christians.
    Why are you ignoring these things? Do you think no one will notice?
     
  21. Anobsitar

    Anobsitar Banned

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    Again: A Christian has to be a member of the christian church[es] - otherwise he is not a Christian. Not to live in a spirtual body - a spiritual sphere - is like not to live in the biosphere - that's a gigantic problem.

    http://youtu.be/CCYSITWpKIk
     
  22. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    Chris·tian (krschn)
    n.
    1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
    2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

    chris·tian/ˌkrisCHən/
    [...]
    Noun:
    A person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

    And then supposedly a Biblical definition (I can't be asked to double check it, so if it's mistaken, I apologize)

    http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/definition.html
     
  23. thebrucebeat

    thebrucebeat Banned

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    This has been shown to be false in a secular sense, as well as in the words of Jesus. Please stop using this silly argument unless you address these two weaknesses to it.
     
  24. Never Left

    Never Left Banned

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    This conversation has gone far afield from the OP.
     
  25. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    True. Where did it derail? We can pick it up from there.
     

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