Virginia Ultrasound Bill Passes In House

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Agent_286, Feb 22, 2012.

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  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    You are dodging questions and issues

    I was asking about yours, but if you are going to debate this with me then care enough about mine to debate it and not ones you try to assign to me.

    So what about yours?

    What has the higher morality saving thousands of lives, hundreds of lives or easing one, two or three in despair?

    Try again

    YOU are the one obsessed with taking innocent human life yet WE are the ones so lost to all sense of humanity?

    Why? Everytime someone on my side mentions the fact that it is a human life you fight to the hilt denying it, claiming WE are the one so uninformed.

    So if it is just a clump of cells, if it is not human, if it is not a life, AS YOU CLAIM what is so emotional about it, what is the trauma?

    YOU are the one who has been telling us it is nothing to be concerned with, it is just a blob, now it is something emotional and traumatic.

    Those have been YOUR points used to attack. So it isn't JUST a clump of cells, it ISN'T just a blob. It IS a life that is killed and THAT is why it is traumatic and emotional?
     
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  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes they do according to the official quoted and I posted a random sampling of other clinics in VA and they all require it. Post the name of a clinic that doesn't.
     
  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    It looks like every human who has ever existed looked at that stage in their life. And yes you can require her to view it and then she and the doctor signs a form stating that she did and he explained what she was seeing. Just standard medical procedure. Not one of the pro-abortion side has been able to explain why abortion should be treated different.
     
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  4. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    WEll you might think it is nothing….but it is a human life…now isn't it?

    And for some women this might be the thing that would make them change their minds.
     
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  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Just like all medical consent, she signs a form and the doctor atest that she saw it and he explained it to her.

    Looks like every human that ever came before looked at that stage in their life.

    Tell me if the Mars Rover sent back a picture of an organism that small, as those on your side put it just a clump of cells and NASA said they had discovered life on Mars, would you be calling them liars?
     
  6. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Soul searching…why? BEcause abortion is killing a human being. Many women know how to get pregnant…but do not know about fetal development once pregnancy occurs. When I work pro-life events we have a table set up with information specifically about this. Pregnant women are awe struck when they find out what their unborn can do…or what is developed.

    For instance….the ultrasound picture you showed…did not state how many weeks the fetus was. I am sure however after looking at it…it is way past one month…probably two or more.

    Most abortions happen within the first twelve weeks.

    Now several people here have said….wow ya can't even see it…its so small…it obviously is just a blob of tissue. Not so. This is the miracle of life and birth.

    Let me educate you about what that tiny little thing can do.

    This video is to week nine…but we all know many women do not even know they are pregnant at this time. Can you believe that all that is happening and the baby is the size of a poppyseed. Wow. It nevertheless is a human life however small.

    http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-8-weeks

    Most pro-aborts believe that viability (they don't know when this occurs for sure they guess) is around twenty one or two weeks…the abortion should be allowed up until this time.

    Lets look at the fetal development of a fetus is at this time…when abortions are still legal.

    http://www.babycenter.com/fetal-development-images-21-weeks

    It is unbelievable that as much as science can tell us about the life in the womb that there are people who simply don't care….and their excuse…..

    ITS SMALL.
     
  7. Cal

    Cal Banned

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    Bull, your just one walking contradiction. You do believe your rights trump mine, and everyone else on this whole dammed board. Do you even read what you write? Go read it your posts and tell me again how you supposedly don't think your better than the rest of us. You can't and if you did it'd be a blatant lie.

    I never implied my belief trumps yours, in fact I don't think I even gave you reason for you to believe that I even give half a care what you think.

    Your just fighting anyone that comes into the topic. Nothing you said has even helped your side. When I get pregnant? Oh OK.....great (evasion..I mean: ) justification. Thanks for playing......

    Oh and then you finish up with some questions about my job and what I do....you don't know me....don't pretend to....you don't get that right.
     
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  8. Rapunzel

    Rapunzel New Member Past Donor

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    Bunch of baby killers.
     
  9. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    I am so sick of this coat hanger excuse that I want to gag. Even PP stated in information that THIS THAT WAS NOT THE CASE…THAT MOST WOMEN GOT THEM BY CERTIFIED DOCTORS. A few women might have used this…and now its the face you want to hold in front of your faces. You tell us the abortion pictures we show are propaganda…..well what is the coat hanger?

    Our countries is made of us thousands of laws…prohibiting all sorts of behaviors. Abortion used to be illegal. And because of doctors who lied on the stand in front to SCOTUS…because of the lie told by Norma…abortion all of a sudden was legal. Our government tells us what we can and can't do with our bodies…..so don't even go there. Abortion KILLS….why not try using that word for once.

    Pregnancy is as normal as dying. We are all born and we all die. There are pregnancies that are more complicated but for the most part….its nothing. It lasts not a lifetime but nine months. That is a typical school year for our children. Most women have no problems at all and if they do…they are easily remedied. Pregnancy is not TERMINAL ILLNESS OR DISEASE.

    You imply that child birth does such damage to a woman. Well honey…most women suffer in silence over the abortions they had…so don't go there with me. Statistics don't do this one justice because most women will not confess to even having one. That is also why you don't see in papers the botched jobs you see done by abortionists…at PP clinics and private one. THEY ARE QUICKLY SETTLED OUT OF COURT…for all the obvious reasons. ABortion can leave scars so deep that you have no idea how devastating they can be. Have you ever had one?
    I don't feel this is a person question…with you because you are pro-choice and obviously feel abortion is ok…so would be proud if you got one.
    Have you? Can you say for sure that all the women who get them don't suffer emotionally?
     
  10. Rapunzel

    Rapunzel New Member Past Donor

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    I've have 2 live children, have had pap smears, breast exams, DNC's, otherwise the whole gamut, except for abortion. It is not emotional or traumatic.

    The only thing I can think of that would be is a miscarriage of a wanted child.
     
  11. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Cal……isn't it something that these people only care if the killing happens and is safe and convenient.

    That says a lot about their worldview doesn't it.

    Hitler killed…it was quick…they did not have to watch it done (one reason the abortionist kills it inside the womb…and crushes its skull…or sucked it part by part into a machine.

    Its small its safe…and so so so convenient and easy.

    Science tells us so much today…more than ever before about the life in the womb and the development of the unborn. It is incredible that today…when we have campaigns to save the whales, the turtles, the eagle, the dolphin…etc etc…that they are so protected that we just kill human life with no respect or compassion and do it like they said….fast and easy.

    Schedule the killing…pay the bucks…..stand in line……kill the unborn…..then leave like nothing ever happened……the pro-choicers vision of loveliness.
     
  12. Rapunzel

    Rapunzel New Member Past Donor

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    Notice that a lot of these protective species such as turtles and eagles and others also mean their eggs!
     
  13. AnnaK

    AnnaK New Member

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    My rights to my own body trump YOUR rights to tell me what I can or can't do with my own body. I'm not asserting any rights over YOUR body - which could be interpreted as thinking I'm better than you. YOU'RE asserting rights over MINE.


    You believe that YOUR belief that life begins at conception should be legislated for EVERYBODY to have to adhere to which would mean that no woman could get an abortion. Therefore you believe that YOUR beliefs trump MINE because I DON'T believe that life begins at conception and that abortion should be legal.


    Absolutely. When you get pregnant and have to face a decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not because the fetus has severe deformities which is going to mean that whatever time it lives is going to be spent in a hospital suffering pain and costing millions of dollars, or that your kidneys are failing and continuing the pregnancy will kill YOU, then I'll listen to your opinion. Until then, you have no standing to try to make laws that affect women only.


    You said you've witnessed "hundreds" of abortions because you're a surgical tech. I'm merely curious that so many abortions would be performed in the hospital unless it was for serious medical reasons. But if you don't want to answer, that's fine. I'll draw my own conclusions.
     
  14. AnnaK

    AnnaK New Member

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    Bunch of (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) woman haters.
     
  15. AnnaK

    AnnaK New Member

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    Well, I've had 4 live children and 1 miscarriage. I have 4 daughters and 5 granddaughters - and 5 grandsons. So don't give me this trash about "babykillers".

    You think it would be bad to have a miscarriage of a wanted child. How would you feel if you had to make a decision to abort a severely deformed baby with most of its organs on the outside to mention just a few of the abnormalities they found on an ultrasound - a baby that you planned and wanted very much? Would you call that woman a babykiller or think she should just go ahead and have it and put the baby and the parents and siblings through the hell of whatever transpired if it was born alive?

    IMPO - for all pro-lifers try to act like you have such a reverence for "human life", you're some of the coldest, most uncaring, most unempathetic people I've ever come across in my life.
     
  16. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Ah! you are talking about late term abortions and when you think abortions it seems that is the common visualisation you have.

    No most abortions are not like that

    A very significant and growing number are very early and rely on taking a combination hormone therapy - so that the abortion becomes an "early miscarriage"

    Lat term abortions are a very very small number of overall abortions
     
  17. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    But have you ever been 15 homeless, on the streets?

    What if you had been told you had cancer during the early stages of your pregnancy?

    What if your husband had suddenly announced he was cheating on you taking everything you owned and leaving you with the children?

    What if your children were struck down by some tragedy forcing you to spend every cent on care and every minute on keeping that care going - and found yourself pregnant - choice between living children and one that might stop you from delivering the care THEY need

    Each abortion has a story that is real and personal to the woman having it. Each abortion IS about choice

    And ask yourself (and it is a question that is always ignored by anti-choicers "What would drive a woman to have an abortion when the outcomes can be catastrophic?"
     
  18. AnnaK

    AnnaK New Member

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/health/views/03essa.html
     
  19. AnnaK

    AnnaK New Member

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    I can think of hundreds of reasons off the top of my head that might cause someone to opt for abortion and the pro-lifers can't seem to think of even one. It's enough to make you think they're totally detached from the reality of life.
     
  20. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Biology 101

    Why are so many in America not teaching/learning biology 101??
     
  21. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    This doctor said…he witnessed several coat hangers….so out of millions and millions of pregnancies….a small small…..tiny number of women did the coat hanger thing.

    So we should make abortion legal…because of a few isolated cases?
     
  22. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I know often the reasons include the ability to look after the other children in the family. I know of more than one woman who has had an abortion because she has at least one disabled child
     
  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    No but statistics from across the world where abortion is illegal show one overwhelming fact - illegality causes maternal mortality
    http://scholar.google.com.au/schola...a=X&ei=SxVLT5jcGc-giQfNprTMAw&ved=0CBkQgQMwAA

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0020729298001945

    The evidence is unequivocal

    Now can you answer the question - "What would drive a woman to have an abortion in the face of outcomes like these?"
     
  24. AnnaK

    AnnaK New Member

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    When I was pregnant, I was married and we were financially stable. We had 4 altogether because we WANTED them and between them, they've had 10 more. I know women who weren't that lucky. One was 6 months from graduating from college and taking a teaching job. She had worked and paid her tuition and board all by herself because her parents refused to help. She had loans to pay back and her family would have completely disowned her if they knew she was pregnant. Her whole future was at stake. Another found that the fetus had gross physical abnormalities when they did an ultrasound. They were a young couple just starting out and had no way to pay the enormous hospital bills that would have been their responsibility and the baby couldn't have survived long anyway. Another had been taking chemo treatments for cancer and birth control failed. Until you've been personally faced with these same agonizing decisions, you should keep your nose out of women's business.

    You mentioned earlier your "pro-life meetings" - are you one of those who stands outside clinics and harasses women going inside - as if they don't have enough problems without your interference? Do you celebrate when clinics are bombed and doctors are shot in their church and through their kitchen windows?



    I will need some scientific proof for this statement. A fertilized egg is NOT life. Many eggs are fertilized and pass out of the woman's body with her menstrual flow. Until a fertilized egg is implanted in the uterine wall, it cannot become a fetus. Some eggs aren't fertilized until 2/3 days following intercourse which is the rationale for the morning after pill - to PREVENT a pregnancy occurring - what YOU would call "an abortion". Don't tell me to get educated until you've done so yourself and getting your information from pro-life fanatics isn't being educated - it's being radicalized.




    I'm no more "playing God" than the pro-lifers are. I'm perfectly happy for them to make decisions for themselves and their minor children. If they want their children to have children to keep them from going to Hell, they can have at it. But they WILL NOT make that decision for me or mine. Just listen to yourself and your "magic marker" paranoia. You have all this "love and compassion" for the UNBORN and absolute hatred for the pregnant women.

    Have you ever gone up to a 14-year-old pregnant girl and offered to adopt and raise the baby if she'll have it instead of getting an abortion? If not - WHY not? Is there some reason you wouldn't want to take on the responsibility of raising a child right now?


    Dear me! How could there possibly be an emergency need for an abortion? In light of the pro-lifer's stand, that sounds very suspicious to me. Do you all gather outside the hospital and protest those incidents, too?
     
  25. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    There is no consensus on when life begins. If life began at conception, where are the funerals for miscarried fetuses?
     
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