The End is Nigh says 3 million americans .

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Marlowe, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    As always Serfin' a balanced view! Indeed I noticed the difference in public action taken. Europe eventually kicked into gear, but the US response was far more pro-active. I found myself wondering "what woud have happened in EUrope if the Americans hadn't made their voices known?". Then I found myself wondering "is it coincidence that these two legal bills coincided with one another?". I think not!

    But there is a slight difference between preparing for a god given armagedon and a legal bill which infringes our rights. That said, I think Europe has to say thanks for American vigilence on the media rights thing.

    So from me - cheers buddy!
     
    Serfin' USA and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, that was the wisdom of an overwhelming majority of Republicans and Democrats in Congress, as well.

    Yes and no.

    The "War on Terror" is over. The new euphemism for dispatching jihadists to Allah's celestial cat house is "Overseas Contingency Operations".

    On the other hand, the USA PATRIOT Act is still in effect and has expanded under the NDAA as my friend Serfin' USA pointed out...
     
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  3. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    President Obama, that markedly conservative President is living in a 'Marxist dream world? You are out of your tiny little mind, Trinnity! Have you ever read any Marx, ever? Do stop talking about things you know nothing whatever about!
     
  4. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

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    Thanks man. I agree that being paranoid over religious stuff is pretty dumb, whereas being at least wary of more government control is good.

    On an unrelated note, I recently tried out Leffe. That's some good beer.
     
  5. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ROFL - Alinskyites are "markedly conservative".

    To a lunatic fringe Stalinist, perhaps. Thanks for the laugh, Iolo...:laughing:
     
  6. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Stop yr nonsense and Please get you facts right. Gun ownership is not totally prohibited in UK . Gun licences are controlled and not easily availbale to any crack POT as yr country. After a few horrific incidents here such as Dunblane , etc., when the majority of responsible citizens called on/pressured the government to tighten gun controls.

    READ AND LEARN :

    While In the United States, you can declare that it is your constitutional right to bear arms. But in the UK, its not so easy , you need to spend hours filling in paperwork and proving to police officers that you are not a danger to society.
    The system is administered by police forces in each part of the UK and in England, Scotland and Wales there are separate licences for shotguns and for other firearms.


    According to the most recent figures for England and Wales, there are 138,728 people certificated to hold firearms and they own 435,383 weapons. There are 574,946 shotgun certificates which cover 1.4 million shotguns.
    Statistics for Scotland show that 70,839 firearms were held by 26,072 certificate holders at the end of last year. Some 50,000 people in Scotland are certificated to hold shotguns - and 137,768 weapons are covered by that scheme.


    Police chiefs can revoke certificates if they conclude that the holder can no longer be trusted. In 2008-09, almost 1,300 certificates were revoked.

    Getting a licence

    Getting a licence is a long and complicated business. Every stage of the process is designed to reduce the likelihood of a gun falling into the wrong hands. It starts with an application form which asks specific questions about why the individual wants a gun, telling them they need to show "good reason".
    The criteria are tougher for firearms than shotguns because weapons that fire bullets must only be used for specific purposes in specific places. These would include deer stalking or sports shooting on an approved range.

    UK GUN CONTROLS ARE NOT AS SIMPLE AS MANY SIMPLE MINDED AMERICANS BELIEVE IT TO BE.

    In contrast, shotguns tend to be used in more general rural circumstances, such as by farmers who are protecting livestock from foxes - and police recognise that landowners need guns for pest control.

    Independent referees provide confidential character statements in which they are expected to answer in detail about the applicant's mental state, home life and attitude towards guns.

    Officers check the Police National Computer for a criminal record and they speak to the applicant's GP for evidence of alcoholism, drug abuse or signs of personality disorder. Social services can also be asked for reasons to turn down an applicant.

    Finally, senior officers must be sure that prospective shotgun holders have a secure location for the weapon, typically a dedicated gun cabinet. Each certificate is valid for five years.
    Control and risk

    The review of the licensing laws makes clear that there are two separate issues for public debate.


    Do you have any knowledge of any significant difficulties the applicant has in relationships with his or her immediate family... given that a firearm or ammunition may be available in the household?”


    End Quote Standard question that appears on firearms application forms


    The first is whether there is any public, political and policing appetite for more gun control per se.
    Given that controls are pretty tight, police chiefs are spelling out that further restrictions would be a fundamentally big argument to be had - and one for Parliament and the people.
    They argue that that if the public want an "absolute prevention" of murders and assaults, there is no point tinkering with the way licences are issued. This becomes a question of whether anyone, anywhere, can hold a firearm at all.
    Assistant Chief Constable Adrian Whiting, the Association of Chief Police Officers' lead on licensing argues that the "hard truth" of certification and checks is that they only minimise risk and cannot eliminate it.

    So that leaves the second issue of monitoring and oversight.

    What's become clear to police in recent years is that there have been cases, particularly suicides, where doctors have not known that a patient held a firearm.

    The answer sound simple: make sure the police tell them. But for years the NHS has remained unconvinced that it could hold such potentially sensitive information securely.
    That may now be changing. Police chiefs believe they can devise a system with the NHS to dynamically share information about ownership and mental state.

    But the system may require Parliament to legislate to allow private data to be carefully shared between the two public bodies, for this single, particular purpose.

    The reality is that gun laws in the UK have developed piecemeal since the end of WWI in response to threats as they are perceived to emerge.


    i HOPE you've now got a better idea of UK Gun controls.


    .....
     
  7. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    That would be a plausible viewpoint had it not been for the kind of rioting, looting, and destruction you in Great Britain suffered in 2011:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/08/us-britain-riot-idUSTRE7760G820110808

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...gma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/08/london-riots-escalate-police-battle

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248

    etc., etc., etc.
     
  8. talonlm

    talonlm New Member

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    No, not totally. Nor are they totally banned in Europe. That was not my intended point. I will say most Europeans have the wrong idea when it comes to gun ownership within the US, though. Too many westerns, I suppose. We're not walking around here shooting people at random because they offend our sensibilities. Nor has the vast majority of us ever fired a weapon in anger. Most are hunters. Many simply want the option for self defense. Some are collectors. And a few are what are collectively referred to as "gun nuts." Most of those are harmless. A few, not so much. Those few tend to cause spectacular events which garner huge amounts of news coverage (lots of air time to fill up, right?) and cause people who don't live here to shake their heads and wonder about our sanity. We're usually wondering about the sanity of the shooter.


    This would be the part where I would point out you have to prove yourself a danger to society here before you're no longer permitted to own a firearm--as in 'innocent before proven guilty.' And people here have to pass a criminal background check, too. Some states require waiting periods. Gun laws vary a lot from state to state. Some are as restrictve (if not more so) than the laws you point out.

    The only thing strict gun control proves is that people who desire to kill others will still do so and they'll use whatever means they desire to do it, legal or not. Laws only matter to the law-abiding citizen. A murder committed with a gun is no different than a murder committed with a fist. It's still murder.

    Here, the average person here may or may not be armed--a gamble a criminal has to take before breaking into a home or attempting a carjacking or whatever. Can the citizens in the UK say the same? Or will they simply have to wait ten minutes or so for the local police to arrive?

    I'm thankful I have the option to choose.
     
  9. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    Yeah quite sweet and drinkable. It's now owned by a large brewery and mass produced. My current favourite is Deugniet, another Blonde and a cracker!
     
  10. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    I like Duvel and Kwak , both around 8.5%
    This article - below- might be worth keeping , for that time you find yourself over there . I have never found one of them so far but I shall be looking .


    Well, after tasting more than 450 of the who knows how many Belgian beers out there, I think I have a pretty good grasp of what I like. But there is such a variety of styles, and different beers suit different occasions, so it is very difficult to create an ordered list. Thus, the following is simply my top ten Belgian beers in alphabetical order:

    ♦ Achel Brune Extra

    ♦ Cantillon gueuze

    ♦ Chimay Grande Réserve (aged)

    ♦ Deus

    ♦ Orval

    ♦ Rochefort

    ♦ St Bernardus Abt 12 Special Edition

    ♦ Taras Boulba

    ♦ V Cense

    ♦ Westvleteren 8 & 12
     
  11. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    IMO Grossly exaggerated. Riots occurred in a few isolated areas - not nationwide . Was soon brought under control. not nearly as bad as current riots - in Greece or as some you in america experienced in yr past :

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvOqE39CWTg&feature=player_embedded"]Revolution '67 - YouTube[/ame]

    etc.etc.etc ..... (wink)
     
  12. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Its No gamble for most criminals , they're often better prepared than their victims - whether burglary or car-jacking.

    The proof is in statistics which shows that firearm crimes are considerable lower in UK than in USA.

    How bad is gun crime in the US? The latest data from the FBI's uniform crime reports is out and it provides a fascinating picture of the use of firearms in crimes across America.

    At the beginning of the year the shooting spree in Tucson, Arizona, that targeted congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords left six dead, including a nine-year-old child. But since then, the issue has been given scant attention.

    However, the figures themselves are astounding for Brits used to around 600 murders per year. In 2010 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state



    I'm thankful that I wont ever have to kill another person for any of my easily replaceable belongings. There's nothing I own which is worth killing someone else for. Its called living in a civilized society.

    ...
     
  13. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    Why not?
    It was water tight .

    Seriously . get your reading glasses on and start researching .
    It was all a question of getting the right bearings to identify Mount Ararat -- from memory .
    And there it was -- not quite ready for another voyage but I believe one of God's E-mails was still legible .
    " Make sure you get some Ravens " it said , again from memory .
     
  14. GeneralZod

    GeneralZod New Member

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    A common theme on this forum with gun ownership/lack of control from some american chatters (the ones far too much pro gun for their own good)

    Is the view: "what if someone breaks into your home and is armed"

    Now speaking from personal experience, my home was broken into once. I was out at the time and the problem i faced, police incompetance at thier luck luster attempts to arrest criminals. Although police time management is another topic.

    There does seem a real fear from our american (some) friends across the pond, at the what IF scenarios of armed loons breaking in. But, this is not something to base your life on when firearms is concerned.
     
  15. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    There were no politically linked riots whatsoever based on reaction to spending cuts or austerity measures .
    The police shot a known villain in unclear circumstances . The local gangs demonstrated and the police acted stupidly and failed to communicate , negotiate or end the gross civil disobedience through fast , firm measures .
    The lack of police sense and their inability to contain matters led to the situation going viral on social messaging sites .
    The underbelly decided they had the green light to rob and thieve and that is exactly what happened with 75% of all identified participants ( CCTV )having criminal records .
    To this day , we do not know who misread the situation and effectively ordered the police to stand off .
    It was caused and ballooned as fast as it did by the speed of Internet communication plus police failure to find anybody sufficiently senior who was prepared to issue one simple order , 'Smash them immediately , but remember you are all on camera".
    But in the conventional meaning of the term , there were no politically motivated riots .
    It was criminal opportunism on a huge scale .
    The police action afterwards ( a bit late you might well say) was relentless . Nearly 1000 have been arrested and taken to court . Sentences everywhere were brutally hard . I have no problem with that , and I recall two idiots in their teens getting 6 years each just for posting inflammatory remarks on social network sites .
    There may be Egg on many people's face for how it began and spread unchecked , but the underbelly will not forget the ferocity of the final actions against them .
    Remember , it only took one suicide by fire in Tunisia to start the so called Arab Spring . The Internet did the rest possibly helped by a few quick witted "professional" anarchists.
     
  16. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    I have read up on it and christian theologists have for hundreds of years had to reassess the acepted "wisdom" of the time, based of new historical and scientific evidence. They seem to now agree that the flood was very local, Noah (if he at all existed, which is not likely) was not the only human survivor, as the flood was localised, Noah's animals were not the only animals to survive. Hundreds of years ago, human understanding was that the world was popluated by only a few hundred spiecies, we now of course know that this number is magnitudes upon magnitudes larger.

    Summary: Genisis got it wrong, horribly so. Christian theologists yet again modify their "understanding" of the bible to suit scientific understanding.

    End game: There was no Noah, no Ark, no global flood.
     
  17. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    Really? GLobal flood accounts from many differenet cultures, Bible says ALL and Jesus even referred to Noah. I'm sure some 'theologians' say no to it all but then they're left leaning secular theologians. If you doubt parts of the bible what's to prevent the ultimate denial of the existence and divinity of Jesus Christ. ummmmm. :wierdface: It's here.
     
  18. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There were many floods in Mesopotamia, which was the world to a small tribal people, and various flood-myths common to the area. Most areas have floods, so there are similar myths all over the place. What on earth has this folk-material got to do with anything sensible?
     
  19. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    The bible also says there was Adam and Eve and giants and people living until 900 y/o. Yet few christians believe it to be true.

    And atheists simply do not believe in "the existence and divinity of Jesus Christ", it goes agains the grain.

    Nevertheless, the root of this little diversion, was a poster claiming that people should be prepared for the worst, because only Noah survived the flood and everyone else got a shock. My point was and still is that this is the worst rationale ever.

    FACT!
     
  20. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Funny stuff, Marlowe. Do you do stand-up, too? :lol:
     
  21. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    I have no Agenda -- I don't even like organised religion .But I suspect Genesis got it reasonably" right" in passing on a legend that had presumably been previously handed down orally .There certainly was a flood , though the "global" bit remains unproven in terms of the way we use that description today .
    However , i am a great follower of Magnetic Pole reversal evidence and something like that could easily have happened then -- around 26 , 000 years ago , if you are a fan of the Mayan system , or around half or one quarter of that figure when solar flares still reach sufficient intensity and frequency to produce earthquake and volcanic devastation .
    Nothing certain , but oddly increasingly likely , as bits and pieces are picked up from different disciplines . imo See , Paul La Violette
     
  22. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Bible can at best be decribed as a mixture of fact and fiction - more fiction than rationally believable facts.

    ----

    [


    For God so loved the world that he drowned everyone in it.--Athwart Babbit

    -----

    God hated the world so much that he sent his only son so that whoever does not believe in him will perish and be denied eternal life.--God's Ex-wife

    "There is nothing the Christian will accept as evidence of his God's evil." - George H Smith

    -----



    .
     
  23. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    There's been many flood - but was there a Noah - an Ark loaded with pairs of all the world's animal species ?

    Genesis1 is a rewritten version of an original myth, The Epic of Gilgamesh
     
  24. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    I take it literally. So do many other Americans as well as millions of people around the world. deal with it. or don't. It makes no nevermind to me.
     
  25. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... I'll have to check that out.
     

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