Gun Related Deaths In America 2012

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Makedde, Jan 11, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
  2. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Any chance you can refer directly to a piece of primary research? I'd see that as a personal success!
     
  3. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You answered so quickly it is obvious you didn't even read the article. That supports what everyone is saying about you. One study, the one you cling to, does not make a good argument against all the other studies done, some of which I have posted and you have obviously ignored. It is just a study that supports your bias which is the reason you are ignoring everything else posted. You are just another pseudo intellectual.
     
  4. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't read secondary sources, particularly tabloid grunt. I refer directly to the research. Can you?
     
  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    FAIL!

    You can't even pay attention to links to research. Seems you can only pay attention to research that you post and that supports your bias.
     
  6. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is true. I've yet to get you to refer to any primary research. There's still time though. You might suddenly realise that evidence is rather important for one's argument!
     
  7. danboy9787

    danboy9787 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Interesting... We better go ahead and ban knives, bats, swords, sticks, stones, screwdrivers, keys, cups, computers, belts, fists, feet, heads, walls, floors, cars, people, food, lamps, rain, water, fire, electricity, pens, pencils, pillows, stairs, planes, and anything slippery. I mean those all kill people too. Oh go ahead and ban diseases too!
     
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry you cannot follow the links in the articles provided. Your problem, not mine.
     
  9. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There is a difference here. Guns typically stand out because we know there is a distinction between private costs and social costs, ensuring therefore the need for regulation. The closest in that list you have are cars. Numerous regulations are used because of similar problems. Technically you've therefore provided a post that celebrates gun control measures
     
  10. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don't fib now. You haven't referred to one piece of primary research. Get referencing if you want to suggest otherwise!
     
  11. danboy9787

    danboy9787 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Gun control? The only gun control I believe in is the prevention of selling to violent people or people with criminal records. Gun type doesn't matter. Number of guns doesn't matter. Who cares is some creepy guy hordes guns on his farm, he still only has two hands. Its not like he can use all 60 guns at once. Its money for the economy so who cares? Nice try twisting my argument, but my actual point is people have been killing literally since the dawn of time. To assume even completely banning guns is going to do squat is the stupidest thing I can imagine. It just lets all the criminals have guns and all the law abiding citizens won't be able to protect themselves. That would definitely help crime rates, eh?
     
  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then you support an illogical position.
     
  13. danboy9787

    danboy9787 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nope, I support what the law is in my country and state. Obviously certain age restrictions but that is a given. Don't want to just sell a 10 year old a gun obviously. Do you HONESTLY think banning guns significantly reduces crime? Because that is illogical. Sure there would probably be less death by bullets but there would still be plenty of death and plenty of bullets. I live in one of the loosest gun controlled places in America, and the crime rate here is FAR lower than almost every heavily gun controlled place in the country. Its a basic fact. Not always true because naturally location is the biggest factor in crime rates, but the basic idea still applies.
     
  14. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your comment "[t]he only gun control I believe in..." isn't based on reacting to the evidence and therefore isn't logical
     
  15. danboy9787

    danboy9787 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    what "evidence"? I just told you crime rates here are lower. There is no proof banning guns would have any serious effect on crime rates.
     
  16. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I haven't referred to gun bans so don't try that red herring. Evidence shows that 'more guns=more crime'. As I said, we're therefore talking about negative externalities that harm well-being
     
  17. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,412
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Touche. Incomplete thought? Which is worse? Bad English or thinking faster than your fingers can type? Neither is good:)

    I fully understand and value studies; but, the fact is you only look at one dimension of a multidimensional issue, as I have pointed out.
     
  18. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then why don't you use any?
     
  19. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,412
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Reiver I have. I have linked to and posted mine. Hey I live near Duke university perhaps I should get the number of the Dr. who carried out one of those "EMPIRICAL" studies and let him know some Chap (Moron) from the UK thinks he is full of (*)(*)(*)(*).

    I have refereed to empirical and government studies and referenced everything. You posted one study that I recanted and you have done nothing else.

    :sunnysideup:
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You fellows continue to fib and its all a little tiresome. You haven't referred to one empirical study
     
  21. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,412
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have but you are blind.
     
  22. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope, you're simply blagging and doing a tediously poor job at it. In summary:

    First paper: general criminology piece, nothing to do with testing gun effects

    Second paper: ditto, with a focus on evaluating the economic approach to criminology (given the methdological individualism used within the analysis developed by the likes of Becker is questioned within the other social sciences)

    Third paper: Another paper looking at the economic approach

    Fourth paper: refers to obvious other factors that impacts on crime rates

    You've effectively said "we've been wrong for using spurious relationship (given the importance of demographic and economic variables) and I can't actually refer to any empirical studies on gun effects". How dull!
     
  23. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,412
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No; I deposed your study. I have put enough doubt out there that it has no credibility. The study was not objective.
     
  24. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    39,883
    Likes Received:
    2,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That's nonsense too. So far you've googled criminology articles randomly (failing to ensure that they are relevant to the topic). You've provided no genuine critique of the Cook and Ludwig paper. You don't have the means
     
  25. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,412
    Likes Received:
    128
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Start at the beginning here and understand I am not disagreeing with anything they found; yet.

    Was this study done focusing only on legally purchased weapons that were being used by a legal owner?

    Yes or no? If no; the study is flawed.

    Again was this legal gun ownership v/s illegal gun ownership.

    Yes or no? If no; the study is flawed.

    Were there civil uprisings and revolution in any of these countries and lawless periods?

    Yes or no? If yes; the study is flawed.

    Were the victims lifestyles, criminal background and current conditions considered and the contribution they made to society considered? Was the fact that many of those killed are a societal money pit ever considered?

    Yes or no? If no; the study is flawed.

    Answer this first. You brought out this study so study it.

    People usually find the answers they want no matter the evidence
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page