How can God die?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by OJLeb, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,200
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Sorry to disagree with you but you are incorrect......Jesus is God and He died. Jesus said He would raise His body from the dead......only God could do that.

    John 2:19 (ASV)
    19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

    Jesus is God and man or God that added humanity to His God hood. It was the Word, whom is God that became man. So to say that God did not die is not Biblically sound. It was God the Son that died but not God the Father.
     
  2. stig42

    stig42 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,237
    Likes Received:
    33
    Trophy Points:
    0
    um incorrect about your faith maybe and maybe even about god and Jesus can you show if she is incorrect about Jesus and god
     
  3. Someone

    Someone New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That would presumably be why the story talks about him coming back from the "dead".
     
  4. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    18,423
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't know for sure, but there are certain scriptures which seem to imply He was - at least until one looks at certain other scriptures.
     
  5. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,831
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A body is disposable, not killable. It's YOU that die, not your body. So, if God put himself as a human to die, then God must have died for your sins, or... played a trick on you?

    Well, I would expect there would be an explanation of it since this is a fundemental belief in the Christian faith.


    So he became human, died, then became God again, and resurected himself as a human?

    Sure, nothing is impossible for God, but in my opinion that isn't a good explanation for something so important in a religion... "Because he can" doesn't seem like a good answer to me.

    To think God would let people kill him, seems very insulting. To think God would let human beings humiliate him like that, seems unbelievable to me... No offense.

    To die one needs a soul, a life, not a body. God was the soul and life in Jesus' PBUH body. So, it was God that must have died, right?

    So, is Jesus PBUH God, or is God just using Jesus' PBUH body? This is all so confusing...


    But Christians say Jesus PBUH is God. And 3 days later, whoever it was that died on the Cross, came back from the dead.

    But there must be an explanation of how this happened for people to believe it so much...

    I see so many people say Jesus PBUH was The God, some say Jesus PBUH was God in flesh... Which was it? I am honestly very confused...

    That was directed to who? The people or God?

    Thanks.


    But if God was dead, who brought God back from the dead? How did everything work if there was no God for three straight days?

    This could be used by athiests to argue against God...

    Yes, I have seen both today. There are some which refer to Jesus PBUH as God, and others which hint at God being a seperate being, some saying Jesus PBUH was the son of God (himself?).
     
  6. Someone

    Someone New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2010
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is hardly the biggest item in the atheist ammunition pile. If you accept the inherently illogical god proposition, then this sort of minor bit of logical gymnastics is just a side show. However, I will add that you're essentially misrepresenting the Christian position with regard to either the trinitarian or unitarian positions. In the trinitarian case, it would only be the son that would have been busy those three days, not the father or holy ghost. Standard Christian trinitarianism holds that the three beings share one divine nature. In the unitarian case (which is substantially similar to the Islamic perspective on Jesus), Jesus was never god to begin with, so it's irrelevant.
     
  7. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,200
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    38

    Jesus was still God when He became Human......He was fully God and fully Human. And He is still God and Human in Heaven.
     
  8. danboy9787

    danboy9787 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    0
    He "took human form" so to speak. To pretend like we can understand what a God does is really pointless, but he took on sin (flesh) yet lived sinless. And that was the true power. It's not something anybody can fully understand naturally.
     
  9. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    19,122
    Likes Received:
    3,191
    Trophy Points:
    113
    First and foremost you have to understand that God can do anything. You don't believe this. Well you kind of do, but not really. God humbled himself to show his nature, his love for all of us, and incarnated in man's flesh and subjugated himself to all the sinful temptations we face, and he conquered the flesh.

    The simple fact is if one doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is God (hallelujah) and died on the cross for us (and resurrected himself, thank you jesus) then they must believe that he is a despicable, shameful, deceitful liar. I have faith that Christ was telling the truth, and the people around him witnessed what the bible claims to be the truth. He is THE ONE. :pray:
     
  10. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    29,682
    Likes Received:
    3,995
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Zeus turned himself into a swan and had sex with Leda. Leda then had a couple of kids from that union. Those gods are something else.
     
  11. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    19,122
    Likes Received:
    3,191
    Trophy Points:
    113
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Messages:
    11,481
    Likes Received:
    915
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm still trying to work through this myself, but not from a theological point of view because my knowledge is very poor.

    I know - accept - Jesus was a Jew. Jesus preached to other Jews. Jesus gathered followers, Apostles, as a result of his teaching. So far so good.

    Jesus' preaching spread among the Jews in the occupied lands of Palestine, the Roman province. Jesus' teaching was a threat to the Jewish establishment, the Rabbis, the Sanhedrin comes to mind. For me this is an example of a religious elite being threatened by a preacher and his followers. the big attraction was that Jesus preached love, not power and force. Back then that would have been hugely attractive to a people who not only endured the Roman occupation but also had to put up with its own oppression from the Rabbinical class. Big clash between the new religion (it was only nascent) and the established religion. We've seen that time and time again in human history. Muslims would be only too aware of the struggles the Prophet faced in carrying his message across the Arabian Peninsula. New ideas up against older, established ideas; ideas which threaten the establishment's power. Ideas which have an innate attraction.

    Jesus' teachings spread around the Mediterranean and the religion became Hellenised and really took off. Again it contained a radical message of love, not of power or force, and appealed especially to the powerless and downtroddden. As such everywhere the message was heard the powerful worried and set out to crush those who preached Jesus' teachings.

    I suspect a lot of the other stuff - the Resurrection, the Ascension and so on - have been bolted on by later Christians in seeking to make the religion more powerful (irony). Ask yourself this question. Imagine you were a person living in the Mediterranean around 200 BCE. Someone comes along preaching Jesus' message. You're uplifted by it, it appeals to you, finally a religion that isn't about oppression. Then you find out that Jesus was just a man, a good man but a man. Are you going to follow the person preaching? They're up against the establishment! But if you are told that Jesus was God made Man; that Jesus died to save you from eternal hell and (*)(*)(*)(*)ation (very real ideas back then) and that by following Him you could be sure of an eternal life in Heaven/Paradise, would that be more persuasive?

    I suspect much of this is down to the political side of Christianity prior to and after the Council of Nicea.

    As I said, I don't know much of the theology, I'm trying to see this as a social phenomenon. And by doing so I mean no disrespect.
     
  13. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    19,122
    Likes Received:
    3,191
    Trophy Points:
    113
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H02o1OIiDQ"]Proof JESUS is GOD From the Quran(part1) - YouTube[/ame]
     
  14. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,831
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I said it could be used, not it will.

    The thing is many Christians believe he was God.

    Islam is different, Jesus PBUH was a Prophet and he wasn't killed, in Islamic belief.

    So God is both God and human?

    But it should be fully understood because its a major concept in the Christian faith, to believe something so strongly without an explanation and full understanding doesn't seem right.

    The "God can do anything" thing isn't a good enough answer, in my opinion, because it doesn't explain anything. You are saying God allowed humans to humiliate him so that God would forgive their sins?

    Not at all. It wasn't Jesus PBUH telling the story, it was men after him who wrote it.
     
  15. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,831
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So far, has been the best explanation in the thread.
     
  16. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    19,122
    Likes Received:
    3,191
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It doesn't change what he professed himself.
     
  17. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    8,759
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    63
    This whole thing is about the doctrine of the trinity, which no-one understands because the Roman Emperors said you had to believe one form of it and the bishops therefore put it in the creeds, stopping all discussion. That was doubtless why so many converted to Islam when they were free to do so.
     
  18. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,831
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    0
    lol... because Jesus PBUH mentioned the 99 named of Allah wlSWT, he must be God? Those names are attributes of Allah SWT...

    The Quran is very clear Jesus PBUH wasn't God, nor the son of God, nor did he die on the Cross.

    But this thread is about the belief he was God in Christianity, and that he/God died on the cross.
     
  19. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,831
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    0
    And what was that?
     
  20. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,831
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It is very hard to understand, and seems therefore just as hard to explain.

    But so easy to believe. For some.
     
  21. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    19,122
    Likes Received:
    3,191
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I posted them. There's more but chew on those for now. It's clear as day, there is no denying that according to the Holy Bible Jesus Christ is lord.
     
  22. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,831
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Then according to the Bible how did God die?
     
  23. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    8,759
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Which words of Jesus represent the truth here, please? - and let's bear in mind that all of the words were recorded a good deal later, when people had done a lot of thinking about their (undoubted) belief in the Resurrection and what that must mean. People like certainty and - in many people's view - imaginary - personal relationships, but the history of Scripture is subject to the laws of history and human memory, surely, unless you believe in constant divine interventions and miracles to keep the text right - which position won't, I think, survive a study of the Church up to 387 AD.
     
  24. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    19,122
    Likes Received:
    3,191
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I do not believe, I experienced this.
     
  25. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2011
    Messages:
    8,759
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You should see sympathetic scientists and get it recorded then, to convince the unbelievers.
     

Share This Page