The Nuclear Annihilation of Israel?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Shiva_TD, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    I have the same concern for Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon that I have for any nation that obtains a nuclear weapon. Certainly those that currently have nuclear weapons, including the United States even though it's authorized to have nuclear weapons under the NPT, are of the greatest concern.

    The only deterant to any nation that has or may obtain a nuclear weapons to prevent them from using it is an absolute guarentee that they will face an all out nuclear retalliation. That is the only means we have of preventing a nuclear war. As I mentioned earlier even if the United States used a nuclear weapon in an attack against another nation it should face a full retallitory nuclear attack by other nuclear weapons nations. Only the threat of nuclear anniliation of a nation will prevent a nation from using nuclear weapons.

    And no, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has never threatened an Iranian attack against either Israel or the United States. Iran is unable to even attack the United States or Israel in any significant manner and, while Ahmadinejad has repeatedly called for the end of the "zionist controlled" State of Israel he has also stated that this will happen internally in Palestine without any direct actions by Iran. President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad opposes the violations of the Rights of the Palestinians by the "zionists" in Israel and has called repeatedly for a general election of all voters in Palestine to establish a government (i.e. a one-state solution) in a democratic process. He has also stated that if the People of Palestine, including the Jews, decide through a democratic process that a two state solution is the final answer that he and Iran would support that decision.

    Iran would never use a nuclear weapon as it would face a nuclear retalliation just as Israel or any other nations should face nuclear retalliation if they use a nuclear weapon. The same identical criteria must be applied to all nations.

    There is a real simply issue that must be addressed. Those nations that are authorized to have nuclear weapons under the NPT need to greatly reduce their nuclear arsenals. They are doing that. Nations that have nuclear weapons in violation of the NPT need to dismantle those weapons. Nations that do not have nuclear weapons should not build nuclear weapons. That is exactly what the NPT states.

    Today Iran has no nuclear weapons and we don't even have evidence that Iran is actually trying to build a nuclear weapon. It is purely speculative. We know Israel, Pakistan, India and N Korea have nuclear weapons in violation of the NPT and the entire UN should be taking all actions necessary to disarm these rogue nuclear weapons nations. If we can impose economic sanctions on Iran for just the speculation that Iran might be attempting to build a nuclear weapons, which we have done, then even greater economic sanctions need to be imposed on those nations that we know have nuclear weapons.
     
  2. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Former Mossad Chief Meir Dagan says NO.. and if you recall, he also told us in late 2002 that Iraq had no WMDs.
     
  3. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Well obviously there are many here who don't think that Iran will use nuclear weapons. Iran have the military strength to invade and conquer any of the countries that they border with and have not done so in the last several centuries, so what makes you think that they will attack any country now?

    So what makes you think that a suicide bomber is any worse that any other bomber? I know that if my country was at war with an enemy, I would prefer my enemy to use suicide bombers; it is a one off tactic!

    Not this crap again. The answer is no!
     
  4. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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  5. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am very sure unless Israel just goes away there is not a chance of peace with Iran and other Muslims
     
  6. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    I would disagree. The Muslim nations are not opposed to Israel but instead are opposed to the violations of the rights of the non-Jewish population in Palestine by the zionist movement. I have suggested in other threads the necessary actions that Israel would need to take to be acceptable to the Palestinians as well as the Muslim nations but Israel will not take those steps because it is controlled by the zionist political movement. I find it ironic today when the US and Israel state that "Palestinian Statehood" must be accomplished by negotiation when the Zionists created Israel without any negotiations. It is a double standard that we see related to the US and Israel. The "We didn't do it but you must" political argument is one based upon hypocracy. The "Israel can have nuclear weapons but Iran can't" reflects this same political hypocracy. Neither Israel (or Pakistan or India or N Korea) or Iran should have nuclear weapons.

    Ultimately no nation should be allowed to use a nuclear weapon without facing nuclear annihilation if they do so.
     
  7. peoplevsmedia

    peoplevsmedia Banned

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    Unfortunately no proof was ever provided, as usual, this is bull crap.
     
  8. creation

    creation New Member

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    Interesting. But arent you just another otherwise very intelligent anti-muslim american who takes really little interest in these affairs.

    If I was to tell you that has already said that they will go along with whatever the palestinians want would that sway you?

    The thing is I doubt because I think you suspect that muslims will always be trying to make war before peace. What youve been told in america has brought you to this conclusion.
     
  9. Subdermal

    Subdermal Banned

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    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9zcElqetqk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9zcElqetqk[/ame]

    Sorry to disappoint you.
     
  10. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    What he said was that Zionism would disappear from the face of the earth.. much like Nazism disappeared.. Germany is still around.

    MEMRI's job is to keep Israelis scared.. Its the glue of Zionism.

    Remember when Ariel Sharon P*SSED off the French Jews? He went to Paris and started telling them that they should move to Israel and bring their money because France was too dangerous for them and anti-semitism was rife? Must have been 2002.

    Its all very transparent. Why don't you see it?
     
  11. creation

    creation New Member

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    Lol.

    Subdermal. Tell us. Whats he actually saying here?

    Have you actually read MEMRIs own transcript on thier website? would you like me to get it for you?

    Honestly people, stop trying to pull the wool over our eyes with this nonsense.
     
  12. loong

    loong Banned

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    The way you keep pounding the gallant Israelis who survived 5 or 6 WARS of TOTAL ANNIHILATION ...... you must be a Muslim !!!

    Are you ?

    I'm glad Israel is our Ally in that Mid East Sewer Hole.

    BTW, I'm not a Jew.
     
  13. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I singled out Iran because that;s what I see and then there are a few Muslims here and there that want war , I need to make it clear that the majority want peace and I realise that , I also know Israel is not totally without guilt .
     
  14. creation

    creation New Member

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    This is an interesting and intelligent post. But are you sure that what you see is accurate?

    After all, sub, in this example, although we often hear americans telling us of Irans desire to nuke israel - a simple reading of the transcript tells us otherwise.

    Although we often hear americans telling us of Israels gallant 5 time defence against arab invasions - a simple reading of the history tells us otherwise.

    Would you agree with me that whatever the tale, one must always consider who is telling it, why and what the other side has to say. Thats something I feel so few americans would agree with in this case -- would you agree to that also?
     
  15. loong

    loong Banned

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    Submarinepainter,

    You are way, way, way......overly generous in lumping Israel with the IslamoFascistTerrorist Swine such as the "palestinian" human trash ..... that's the only valid conclusion regarding characterization of what the surrounding Arab countries of Israel thought about the "palestinians" when they had this gob of malcontents living in what may have been somewhat close to their Nazi Concentration Camps prior to their shipment into Israel to deliberately cause trouble.

    Lumping Israel in what SEEMS to be a somewhat "equivalency" with gallant Israel, our ONLY TRUE ALLY in that certifiable SEWER-like Mid East replete with our enemies (yes, Saudi Arabia does important business with us.....but they are our enemy, make no mistake about that) ...... is an overstatement that is borderline with being a travesty.

    As to Creation.

    The fantasy flag of a non-existent nation of "Palestine" indicates that Creation is one of those "palestinians"....or, one of their ardent supporters.

    Please focus on his advice to you regarding WHO should be given your trust:

    "Would you agree with me that whatever the tale, one must always consider who is telling it, why and what the other side has to say."

    So, I'd like you to take into consideration his "palestinian" IslamoFascist Apologist Crap in future posts.

    BTW, I am not Jewish.

    My ONLY interest on this issue is what is in the best interests of America.....consistent with the moral parameters involved.
     
  16. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Is the violation of the natural Right of Citizenship within the parameters of the American ideals? In the United States we have considered anyone born in the United States to be a natural born American citizen for over 100 years. Israel has denied this citizenship to hundreds of thousands of individuals that were born in Israel but fled as refugees to avoid being caught up in a war of independence that was started by the Zioinist Jews.

    Is the violation of the Right of Property within the pararmeters of the American ideals? Over 18% of Israel was confiscated from the non-Jewish owners of the land without compensation violating their Right of Property.

    Are the violations of UN Security Council resolutions by Israel that were supported by the United States in the interests of the United States?

    Does the proliferation of nuclear weapons by rogue nuclear weapons states, such as Israel, in violation of the NPT serve American interests?

    Would a nuclear war started by Israel that would unquestionably lead to every Arab nation developing nuclear weapons serve American interests?

    Israel does not represent the interests of the United States in the Middle East. It never has. This is a myth and Israel violates virtually every ideal we hold of value in the United States.
     
  17. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    Remind me. What has the US been given or helped by these allies? Did they send any troops to Viet Nam? Korea? Gulf war?
     
  18. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Actually Israel attacked the USS Liberty so how can we call a nation that has attacked us an ally?

    http://www.gtr5.com/

    We can also look at some of those that the US has called "allies" in the past such as Saddam Hussein. We're very loose with calling people our allies and have supported tyrannical regimes for decades. Israel happens to be one of those tyrannical nations the US calls an ally.
     
  19. loong

    loong Banned

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    Shiva, the Forum Moderator, gives one the distinct impression that he supports the IslamoFascist Terrorist's point of view and has a distinct bias against Israel, our ONLY TRUE ALLY in the Sewer Hole,i.e., The Mid East.

    Is that my imagination.....or is that an OBVIOUS FACT ???
     
  20. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    No.. I am not a Muslim.. and while I realize the European Jews were persecuted for 2000 years in Christian Europe and survived the Holocaust.. they arrived in Palestine seeking sanctuary in a world that largely refused them entry.

    Their response was to behave like Nazis.. becoming the abusers themselves.

    They began demonizing Arab Christians and Muslims, taking their land and water by force of arms, destroying their olive groves, homes, Mosques and schools. They have steadily expelled them to make way for Jewish only homes and roads.

    They have practiced collective punishment and apartheid.

    Israel is a poor and unreliable ally.. but they have also been on the dole for 60 years while poking the US in the eye..

    They are neither our oldest ally in the ME nor the most stable...Killing Americans in Cairo, bombing the USS Liberty for three hours are not the acts of an ally.

    Israel is a problem for the US and has been since Eisenhower.. Belligerent freeloaders generally are.
     
  21. Subdermal

    Subdermal Banned

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    He said Israel, and the way he refused to answer the questions put before him in conference on this direct question.

    You may like to call it posturing, but it is irresponsible, and the Western World has no choice but to take him at his word.

    It's funny how you and yours are willing to contort Ahmadinejad's words to soften or change their plain meaning, but are utterly condemnational when someone like Reagan calls the USSR "the Evil Empire".

    :rolleyes:

    MEMRI's own transcript, you say? How about what the video shows? Apologists make me sick.
     
  22. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    I don't speak Persian but when I've watched news shows where individuals that do speak Persian are on they consistantly state that Ahmadinejad is referring to Zionism and not Israel. The American press often changes the wording to state "Israel" as the complaints are certainly against the actions of the government of Israel which has always been controlled by the Zionists.

    I'm sure that the same is done when others refer to America under neo-con control. They may refer to America but are actually referring to the actions of neo-com leadership.

    Of note, yes Reagan referred to the USSR as the "evil empire" but was he talking about the nation of the USSR or was he referring to the political leadership? I would argue he was referring to the political leadership and not the nation.
     
  23. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I can recall hearing leaders in the ME calling for the elimination of Israel and the death of all Jews. Liberals seem good to go with that.

    On the other hand, I've never heard Israel say that Iran or Syria or any other country shouldn't exist and all it's citizens should be killed.

    Which country in the Middle East allows Jews and Moslems to participate fully in the government? That's really a trick question because most countries in the ME don't allow any participation except with guns.

    I don't understand liberals love of dictatorships. Perhaps it has to do with their inability to persuide citizens to commit suicide.
     
  24. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    You sure haven't been paying attention for the past 50 years.
     
  25. Abu Sina

    Abu Sina New Member

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    Welcome to the world of the crazy Zionists.

    Your the American.
    Your country arms and funds these madmen.
    Your tax dollars keep them killing children and attacking aid vessels and funding terrorist groups all over the place.
    You need to sort them out because they are your monster not ours.

    One thing is for sure though.
    IF they ever did try to send one missile over the heads of Arabs, the Tel Aviv will be dust before morning the next day.
    Missles will rain down on their heads and finish them once and for all probably taking us with them but that is what the US seems to want so we will see.
     

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