Palestinian Statehood ( Part 3 )

Not at all. I support resistance to criminality and brutality. Having you stick moronic labels on it doesn't mean squat- if you'll pardon the expression.

 

Ever since the 1950s, the Palestinians have embraced various violent methods to support their cause, including outright terrorist atrocities (high-jackings, bombings, Munich massacre, etcetera). The efficacy of this 'resistance' can be seen in how much better off the Palestinians are today than they were 50 years ago, just as their attempt to overthrow the monarchy in Jordan in 1970 worked out so well for them (sarcasm alert).

The rockettes are almost random in their flight paths and are not a major concern to most Israelis. What they are is a symbol, both for Hamas and for Israel, of continued evidence that there can be no peace between Israel and Palestine. Just how Hamas expects to win the war is a separate question I have never heard a Hamas spokesman give a coherent answer to.

To use Moon's favorite example, the ANC's armed struggle was a joke as well and it probably delayed the eventual collapse of apartheid in South Africa (instead of hastening it). And if Moon is harkening to something like the Cuban revolutionaries, the Palestinians are not Castro in Cuba but rather Che in Bolivia. Non-violent protest and civil disobedience would be a much more effective tactic for the Palestinians, but they would rather throw stones and rockettes.

 

QUOTE: "Palestinian statehood bid to be reviewed by UN committee."

QUESTION: Does the current bid for "Palestinian statehood" apply to an organization and/or to a geographic region? I can't envision how a Palestinian organization (as in "group") could be admitted to the UN. But on the other hand, the current bid for statehood doesn't appear to include a defined geographic region (as in land area) that can be marked on a map. If Palestine is to be recognized as a State, it seems reasonable to ask, where is "Palestine"? I hope someone will post a link to a map of the proposed "Palestine"; or at least offer an explanation as to what it is that seeks to be a member of the UN.

 

The current consensus is that the Palestinian State should be on the ' pre-1967 borders '. That's roughly Map 3, below.



Of course, that should never be the ' final status '. Map 2 was the original carve-up prior to concentrated ethnic-cleansing on the part of Zionist terror gangs.
Even fairer would be Map #1, the state of Palestine before self-serving Western powers screwed things up.

The term ' State ' is, of course, a political term. The physical territory of Palestine is as in Map #1.

 

Bravo !


.....

 

If Palestine does not exist, then Israel does not exist. Basically, your argument is demanding for Israel to be kicked out of the UN for not existing since you don't know where its borders are.

 

The Palestinians' position today is stronger- on the world stage- than at any time since the creation of the United Nations. That position is largely due to their armed resistance to invasion and the respect that such uncowering resistance has generated. You might not like it- it's safe to say that you will hate it, in fact- that many Palestinian resistance fighters and anti-Zionist politicians have hero/heroin status outside of your own narrow sphere of reference. Some are legendary. Your stereotypical examples, thrown up to boost your transparent pro-Zionist rhetoric- mean little to those who resist US/Zionist hegemony.
You also expose a lack of knowledge of the subject by suggesting that the Palestinians have never tried the non-violent approach. Perhaps you'd feel more comfortable discussing something else.

 

Moon is well-named, because she certainly isn't living on the same planet I'm living on. The Palestinians have a fraction of the economy they used to have (they are basically living on international handouts, especially in Gaza), and they have no military to speak of. They have two major political groups vying for power who hate each other, and they have the Israeli government and the settler movement eroding the ownership of their land.

I would indeed agree that many Palestinian terrorists and hard-line anti-Zionist politicians have a very favorable status in much of the Muslim world and among leftist circles, but that doesn't make their methods and policies right. The intellectual left loved Stalinist Russia without realizing for decades (and some never did) what a totalitarian hell-hole it really was, so popularity doesn't mean squat to reality.

I would also agree that there have been a few attempts at non-violent action by some Palestinians over the years, but the combined effects of a preference for violence and a lack of documentation (video, pictures) of Israeli reaction to such efforts made those faltering steps fall short. There has never been a major attempt at a non-violent approach and I doubt there ever will be.

What Moon fails to understand is that the Israelis WILL NOT go away and they WILL NOT accept Palestinians as citizens of some kind of united Israel/Palestine. The way things are going, this will leave the choice of either the Palestinians getting rid of the Israelis (hopefully by expulsion) or the Israelis getting rid of the Palestinians (hopefully by expulsion). Given the relative strength of the two peoples, I know which group I would bet on when it comes to a show-down.

 

In the short term, yes, yet in the long term the other side may win. In any case, the fighting will go back and fourth sooner or later until humans change their ways in dealing with the situation.

 

skeptic-f;

Nonsense. The Hamas unilateral ceasefire led to them winning the Palestinian elections. It's becoming a chore, filling you in.

 

In the long term, the other side may all be dead... But of course you aren't the one doing any of the fighting, prefering instead to hide in switzerland and write silly post on PF...

 

What ceasefire... There are rockets launched almost every week...

 

There are shooting nearly every day in Detroit- but they aren't carried out or sanctioned by the government. Those who want to blame Hamas, or Iran, or Hizb'allah for every anti-Zionist activity are simply rotting their own brains .

 

Yeah, Hamas is pure as snow... yellow snow that is.

Maybe they shouldn't be in charge of Gaza then since they are such a bunch of morons who can't control her own security force...

 

I do not believe in slaughtering hated Semites due to unconditional racism. It makes more sense to accept Palestine and Israel while advocating equality and fairness.

 

But you do advocate Nuking Israel TJ!
You said it yourself. Talon posted the link to your own post as proof many time...

Yes, a separate palestine and a separate Israel would be a good thing. But Hamas doesn't want that. They want all of it and no Israel. Maybe you should write to them...

 

This is false. You need facts to attack me, not the heavy reliance on anti-Semite slurs. Since anti-Semites rely heavily on false claims, I created the following post to address this issue: http://www.politicalforum.com/forum-help-feedback-etc/212232-need-fact-wiki.html

Hamas is represented by Hamas, not the needs, desires or claims of anti-Semites who make claims about it. One should ask Hamas what it wants instead of telling Hamas how it must be.

 

Talon quoted The Judge out of context in order to fabricate his case. This has been pointed out several times by several members.

 

It is sickening that PF posters insist on an extreme position, yet are not the ones living in those untenable conditions.

Interestingly people who pay the hardest price of the mess, like Galit, are the moderates despite the personal suffering they face.

Luckily the hard liners are old men posters on an obscure forum.

 

Why do you require facts when you attack others regularly by saying that they say something without ever providing quotes in support of your claims?

By way of example, you have called me racist but have never provided any quotes in support thereof.

 

or teens/young adult who have yet to fend for themself and are enjoying the cozy privilege of living at their parent home including free internet access.

 

Such self-criticism is accepted and respected. I'm glad both Nosferax and yourself are self-critical, realizing, suddenly, that the thread topic is not Switzerland. Good job and well done.

 

Ok, thanks for explaining your situation. I'm confident that you know your situation better than anyone and are thus in a perfect situation to define it. Such is irrelevant for this topic, but it's good that you let it out and got it off of your back. Well done and welcome to the thread discussion on Palestine.

 

You need facts to attack forum members, not anti-Semite slurs.

 

or in denial of who and how old they are (see post above)...