Late term abortions are legal in the US.

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by The Amazing Sam's Ego, Feb 6, 2013.

  1. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Lots of pro choicers on these boards have argued that late term abortions are illegal in the USA except for the life of the mother instance. They're just in denial. It's a load of nonsense.

    First of all, according to Fugazi, a fetus feels pain at 20-something weeks into the pregnancy. But some abortions are legal even past then.

    Late term abortions should only be legal to save the mother's life. That's all.

    And, even then, that's nothing more than just a loophole-a copout- a lame excuse. Late term abortions are not nessecary to save the mother's life.

    Even many pro choice advocates have realized just how evil and barbaric the radical pro abortion fanatics are.

    If anybody here doesn't care about fetal pain, then feel free to explain your opinion to me. I am willing to debate this issue with anybody over here.

    Obama is pro late term abortion and pro partial birth abortion. That's a radical fanatical pro abortion person. That's different from pro choice. A fanatical pro abortion person.
     
  2. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Amazing Sam's Ego said,

    "Lots of pro choicers on these boards have argued that late term abortions are illegal in the USA except for the life of the mother instance. They're just in denial. It's a load of nonsense."

    Many think late term abortions are ok...it's the woman's body her choice. And then the rest who are hypocrites...think that only women own the rights to their bodies until they decide when...then they lose the rights. Hypocritical position.

    All of the pro-choice/aborts here believe that late term abortions just don't ever happen. They think this is a figment of the pro-lifers imagination. They don't believe the articles that show late term abortion clinics are closed....just did not happen. All doctors are above board and simply don't do late term abortions. They believe no one has ever regretted their abortion...and women don't have any problems over killing their unborn. They think abortion is all positive....there are no negatives.

    THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT PAIN...THEY DON'T CARE.

    Don't agree. No pro-abort here will call another pro-abort out if they disagree. Some believe that late term abortion is wrong...some think its ok. They don't discuss it...or call each other on it. They can't. 99% of them champion all abortion period.


    You would be beating your head against a rock...to even try. They don't care....about any of it...certainly not the pain an unborn might feel. Simply above their pay grade.


    Obama is pro-infanticide....he is evil as is the pro-choice position.
     
  3. WhatNow!?

    WhatNow!? New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    Messages:
    2,540
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    """All of the pro-choice/aborts here believe that late term abortions just don't ever happen."""""

    Begin with an outright lie and nothing you post could ever be credible.



    Unless of course you have proof that you can pull out of your ....?????



    Show proof......


    Waiting for the proof.........




    you are = you're


    your car, your house....you are (you're ) going to go to your house...





    Now, back to where your proof is....??????


    And while you wallow in your hate for Obama, remember, Michelle Obama didn't have an abortion......



    """Hypocritical position.""""
     
  4. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Messages:
    17,057
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    0
    not quite true, the mental state of the woman can also be given as a reason for a late term abortion, elective late term abortions are illegal.

    Its not according to me, that is the general consensus of the majority of the experts in the field, backed up by the research.

    And this is what happens, mental health issues can cause a woman to commit suicide or infanticide you know.

    Try telling that to a woman with complications that could kill her if she proceeded.

    As I have said there are always radicals at both extremes of any debate.

    I do, though there are some here who will insist I don't

    I can't comment as I don't have all the facts on Obamas position.

    One thing I would like to see is that any abortion that has to take place after the point of viability there should be every effort made to keep the fetus alive .. I would suspect (with no facts) that any woman who goes that far into the pregnancy will have wanted the fetus born .. though I also accept that there may be occasions where this is not possible.
     
  5. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Later tonight I will reply to your posts with counterarguements, but I'm doing other stuff right now. I'll BRB later!
     
  6. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    There is no proof that I can think of that late term abortions are a federal crime. If so, give me some proof. And while some late term abortions are for saving the mother's life, the "health" of the mother is just a loophole that allows many elective late term abortions to happen. And, you callous people don't even care how much pain the baby feels, because "its just a woman's body". Well, if it can feel discomfort and pain, it's not a woman's body anymore.
     
  7. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,873
    Likes Received:
    73,626
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Gee and I had to look so FAR from Wiki

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States

    but what if, like the overwhelming majority of late abortion the foetus is so malformed that it is incompatible with life?

    http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2009/06/01/share-your-late-term-abortion-story/
     
  8. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I don't know what to say. You are not directly arguing against what I'm saying.

    And, also, you still didn't answer my questions.

    According to roe vs wade, a state can only forbid late term abortions if it provides an exception to the mother's life or HEALTH, and, to quote John mccain," that's been twisted around by the pro abortion crowd to mean almost anything."
     
  9. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    91,873
    Likes Received:
    73,626
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Hhhmmmmmm - yes - would you rather the Irish solution which leads to an increase in Maternal Mortality??
     
  10. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Some women even die from legal abortions too. That coat hanger arguement is absolutley false.
     
  11. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I can totally understand why you would be pro choice if the mother's life was at danger, even in instances of late term abortions.

    At least I can understand why somebody would say "a zygote isn't a person", or I can even understand to a certain extent why people would support early term abortions, especially the ones that happen at a few weeks in pregnancy. But late term abortion is a totally different story. The fetus is totally viable and able to survive without the mother. What difference does it's location make in it's personhood, really?

    You and many other pro choicers have argued that a pre-viability fetus/embryo depends on the mother so it doesn't deserve personhood rights. You argue that it depends on her body therefore it's not a person.

    However, late term fetuses are totally able to survive outside the mother, and they can feel pain and sensations.

    Even if a late term fetus has abormalities that make it unable to survive past birth, why not just let it peacefully and naturally miscarry instead of forcing it to go through a painful late term abortion procedure? Thankfully elective late term abortions are illegal, but even in these "specific situations", abortion is a totally wrong solution for the problem. Why not just let that fetus with abnormalities that make it unable to survive outside of the mother peacefully miscarry naturally, instead of an unnatural painful abortion procedure?
     
  12. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    10,923
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Not every fetus with anomalies will miscarry. Some are able to be sustained by the woman's body even though they will be unable to sustain themselves after birth. That means a woman must endure several months of "uncomfortable" (that's a euphemism for the hell of late-term pregnancy) pregnancy all the while knowing that her baby will not live, and also that it may suffer the short period of life after birth. If the fetus will not be able to survive more than a short period after birth, WHY should a woman have to endure that? Because it would make YOU happy to leave it in "the hands of God"?
     
  13. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Some women have late term abortions because their child has some disability. That is inexcusable and despicable. And don't give me this "the life of the mother or the fetus can't survive past birth for that much time" arguement.

    You are arguing for late term abortions through some sort of euthanasia arguement. I'll admit, you don't sound as horrible and evil as some pro choice arguements, but you're a bit misguided. You are arguing for late term abortions in some sort of euthanasia arguement "the baby/fetus won't survive very long, and it's suffering".

    I disagree. Let the fetus be born, even if it lives for a very short amount of time. Late term abortions are incredibly painful for the baby.
     
  14. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    10,923
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You're very misinformed. Anesthesia can be used if there is ANY anticipation the fetus will feel ANY pain. You have ignored the cost to the woman of continuing a pregnancy that will inevitably have a bad outcome; the woman should not be forced to suffer. The fetus cannot feel pain before 26-27 weeks, and abortions that late are extremely rare. If the disability you are referring to is Down's syndrome, the fetus can be aborted by 20 weeks, so no pain. Only the parents can know if they can deal with and provide for a Down's syndrome baby, or any other disability for that matter.
     
  15. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Your arguement is very nazi-like. Youre basically saying that unborn children with disabilities have no right to live because they might be too hard for their parents to raise in general. Well, the nazis justified their genocide on handicapped people by saying very similar things "oh, they're an inconvenience to society".

    Second of all, just because late term abortions are very rare, or not as common as other abortions, that doesn't diminish how tragic and horrible they are, in the least.

    Well, also, some women have late term abortions because of disabilities, and that's legal.

    You pro abortion people remind me like holocaust deniers, you try to deny the fact that such horrible stuff ever happened.
     
  16. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    10,923
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    63
     
  17. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Messages:
    17,057
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location - nothing at all, but has been pointed out to you there are disabilities that will not mean the death of the fetus while it is still in the womb, yet when born it will not survive .. there are some disabilities that will cause the newborn to die in pain. Later term abortions are normally done with the fetus having first being anesthetized, so just like you undergoing an operation there is no pain, also remember in some states a late term abortion must have a second doctor present so that if the fetus shows any signs of life it can be given medical treatment.

    and this is pretty much how the law sees it as well, hence why post 24 weeks an elective abortion is illegal.

    As said above normally an abortion being performed on a fetus at that state of development would firstly include the fetus being anesthetized.
     
  18. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    10,262
    Likes Received:
    283
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Please prove to me that late term abortions are only legal to save the mother's life or if the baby won't survive too long after birth.

    If that was the case, it wouldn't be as upsetting. But unfortunatley, your arguement that they are illegal=bogus.

    http://www.lifenews.com/2012/08/10/most-late-term-abortions-are-not-done-for-medical-reasons/

    Even many of the late term abortions that were done to save the mother's life, they never used it as a last resort. They were either falsely diagnosed, or other alternatives were not used, making abortion a last resort. It was not used as a last resort. The life of the mother, yes, in some instances, was a reason for those late term abortions, which were preformed to save her life, but in many other instances, no, there were other ways to save her life. Even you, a pro choicer, said that they should do everything else possible other than abortion, and I agree with you, and use abortion as a last resort to save the mother's life. But unfortunatley, that's not how late term abortions happen.

    Even when there are fatal birth defects, I still believe that late term abortions are wrong and a form of euthanasia. Some women had babies with fatal birth defects, and they lived only for a few hours, but it was more natural and moral than just ending their baby's life quicker. In those instances, those women make the wrong decision out of desperation. But it's still wrong even then.

    You still haven't proved that 100% of late term abortions use anesthesia, or are legally required to do so.
     
  19. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    10,923
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You have no evidence that late-term abortions are casually performed. If you believe that late term abortions involving life-incompatible anomalies are wrong, then don't have one. But step out of the way for women who are pregnant with a fetus which will not live and who make a different choice. It will make no difference for the fetus, it will die anyway, so you can't pretend you're all about saving "innocent life."
     
  20. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,044
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I do not understand why it is okay to kill an unborn baby just because it is not "viable" yet. Choicers say the fetus is not a baby, yet a prematurely born fetus still squirms around gasping for breath for several hours outside the womb. How is this not a baby?!?

    [video=youtube;ci_M6NMQXyc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci_M6NMQXyc[/video]
     
  21. WhatNow!?

    WhatNow!? New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2013
    Messages:
    2,540
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am so totally interested in how you obtained all this privare medical information....how do you know but the authorities, the guys who monitor evey woman who's having a medical procedure, don't know??? Didn't you report all your "eye witness" accounts??
     
  22. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Messages:
    17,057
    Likes Received:
    96
    Trophy Points:
    0
    speaking specifically about the US, you only have to actually read the Roe v's Wade decisions.

    Please prove to me that my argument is "bogus", using an avid pro-life site isn't proof.

    In a number of US states it is a legal requirement for a second doctor to be present at a late-term abortion, this is done in case the fetus is born alive, the second doctor must administer medical treatment in order to try and save its life.

    Could you describe the "other" ways that could be done in order to save the womans life without having to remove the fetus?
    Can you give proof that there were false diagnostics?
    Later-term abortions are the last resort, you have to remember that a woman who has gone through 20 weeks of pregnancy will most likely be a woman who wanted that fetus to be born.

    Another question, if as you say you are pro-life and all the pre-born from conception should have the same rights as a born person, why do you make the distinction that its ok to abort when the mothers life is in danger .. doesn't this mean, under your stance, that suddenly the fetuses life is worth less than that of the mother, why is it?

    I have never said they should do everything else before abortion.

    If you want to talk natural then lets remove all medical help for any newborn, let nature decide if they live or die .. further still lets stop all interference with nature by the medical profession.

    So you believe it is moral to allow a fetus that cannot survive outside of the womb to be born and die, in possible pain, or would you anesthetize it so it could die in peace .. pretty much what they do in late-term abortions anyway, what is the difference?
     
  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,518
    Likes Received:
    27,044
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Heh. You think the mortally deformed fetus will have an easier death as a mortally deformed infant? Better to end that suffering as soon as possible, perhaps even early enough to avoid any suffering at all on the part of the fetus.
     
  24. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,044
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    [video=youtube;vdm-i62hRdc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdm-i62hRdc[/video]
     
  25. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,044
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Except that fetuses can be viable BEFORE the "point of viability" !!!
    A fetus born born just one week before the point of viability has a 10-35% chance of surviving. In fact, the point of viability is defined as the point at which the fetus statistically has a 50% of survival into adulthood.

    And even at 21 weeks, when the baby has virtually a 0% chance of survival, that still does not mean the baby will immediately die outside the womb. Being born alive happens all the time with induced labor abortions. Such babies typically squirm around for an hour, gasping for breath, desperately trying to cling to life. The heart will often continue to beat for a few hours more.


    [video=youtube;iN5OyEB-et4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN5OyEB-et4[/video]
     

Share This Page