ALERT: The Anonymous Group - Anarchist Criminals

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Trinnity, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    LOLOLOLOL... :mrgreen:

    Confused indeed.........
     
  2. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    There wasn't a scandal. The owner failed to pay taxes. Taxes he shouldn't have been paying in the first place. He sued the government and the government imprisoned him! And then they took his company and didn't even give just compensation.

    Socialist thieves!
     
  3. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    I start off simple and then I elaborate.

    They are Socialist and Spain is not Capitalist. It's far from it. It's a full blown Welfare State. It's a Social Democracy, which is a form of governance Marx has inspired for it's Soviet Union wannabes.

    Venezuela is still conducting their "Movement for Socialism" they have been working on since the 1970s. With any luck, it'll be just as bad as Cuba.

    And you would like what Canada did. It's not so great when their own government can't produce any drugs and has to steal off American innovated drugs.

    Military action is done by states, not economies. Nothing under Capitalism nor the Free Market allows for force. Unlike Socialism where force rules the day.

    Without the Bolsheviks, Ayn Rand would have never escaped and came to America. So, that is one good thing Socialism has done right I guess.

    We are referring to markets, not wars.
     
  4. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    He didn't pay the taxes. He made an illegality. He evaded taxes. That is being socialist thief? LOL

    And say that the PSOE is socialist is like saying that I am a priest.
     
  5. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    I am from Spain. And it is an insult say that Spain is not capitalist. And is an insult say that PSOE is socialist.

    It shows the ignorance about that party.

    First point. In the end of 70s in Surennes PSOE with the presidency of Felipe Gonzalez left to be Marxist. And today is self-called a progressist party. It doesn't have anything of Marxist neither socialist.


    Steal off American innovated drugs? LOL


    LOL. That capitalism not allows for force. Your ignorance about capitalism is incredible.


    Ayn Rand. LOL. What good she did? Sorry but, Ayn Rand and his theory is uthopic and don't consider the humanity. No, Ayn Rand is another ultraliberal pro-corporations and anti-workers. Also defender of egotism, if I don't remember wrongly.
     
  6. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    You should be insulted. Not because the PSOE is socialist and Spain is not capitalist but because you have no fundamental understanding of Capitalism. Spain has the stench of a Social Democracy all over it.

    No guarantee of Private Property Rights, High Tax Rates, Prices Controls, one of the highest minimum wages in the world, inflated monetary system, tariffs, quotes.


    None of this is Capitalism. You wouldn't know a Capitalist country if it made you a millionaire.

    Gonazlez resigned because the party wouldn't sway away from it's Marxist position. He returned in promise that it would become less socialist. It's still pretty socialist to this day.

    Ever heard of a "generic?" Look it up.

    Says the person who has no fundamental understanding of basic economics, or the price system, or what makes a country capitalist.

    Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is about Individualism and Objectivity. So you do "remember wrongly." As it is painfully obvious you never read the book.

    As for "what good she did", her book has 25 Million Copies sold and was the hallmark for political and philosophical study around the world. Her book probably did more good than Karl Marx's Socialism ever did in practice around the world.
     
  7. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    He didn't evade taxes. He had accounts offshore. Offshore accounts aren't suppose to be taxed, and yet it was considered invading taxes.

    What else do you call it when you expropriate property? That's stealing.

    They are certainly not progressive nor capitalist. You wouldn't be able to name a single thing they've done economically in the name of capitalism.
     
  8. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    WTF? highest minimium wages in the world? 600€ is high? Don't joke with me. You don't know about what you're talking.

    High tax rates? For the lowest class yes, and no progressive tax rate, that is anti-socialist.

    Prices controls? No, Spain doesn't have.

    But again highest minimum wages in the world? Are you crazy? Spain has one of the lowest minimium wages in Europe.

    What nonsensne.


    What socialist has today the PSOE? (*)(*)(*)(*), if is privatizing the healthcare, education...? PSOE privatized telefonica and PP ended, the same with other companies. PSOE is not socialist. It is a capitalist party. And you ignore the reality of Spain.

    At least in Spain the conscience is becoming bigger, and the conscience of PPSOE are the same is bigger. Yes PP(the supposed right) and PSOE(the supposed left) both do exactly the same economic policies, both are rightist.


    Obviously that I've heard about it. And?


    Do you think that I don't know economy? Because I don't agree with you, and I base my conclusions in different points, doesn't mean that I don't understand economics. Just I ignore many points of economy that I consider immoral, and must be fought.

    Economy must be in service of the society. Not the contrary like today.


    And?

    Was a radical liberal, that didn't have any problem with dying people and other things. No, his philosophy is dangerous like every liberal.
     
  9. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    Privatize healthcare, privatize telefonica, privatize Argentaria. Change the constitution to introduce a top deficit.

    Make more free the firing of workers, rise the age of jubilation to 67 years. And social conservative things like mantain the concordate with the church, also be monarchic...

    For all these things say that PSOE is socialist is an insult to the intelligence.
     
  10. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    Health care is still universal in Spain last time I checked. They just have a small percentage of their hospital which are private. Telefoncia is still public owned company. It's just privately traded. Meaning you're not allowed to purchase telefonica stocks. Last time I checked Spanish banks own them and a Dutch TV group owns them.

    As for that other thing, I don't know what that is.

    Churches are already not suppose to coordinate with the state. What does this have to do with the economy?

    You really haven't named anything which gave them pro free market stance. If they were really pro free market they would eliminate all those tariffs on energy.
     
  11. Flag

    Flag New Member

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    I live next to spain, i've been there many times and I see nothing socialist there but if you that have never been to spain say so...
     
  12. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    I said one of the highest minimum wage in world.

    http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Minimum_wage_statistics

    There are only 6 EU countries higher than Spain. The other countries are lower than Spain.

    Spain is not business friendly. It is tied with Germany with the highest corporate tax rate in the EU. And what are you talking about no progressive tax rate? Spain has a community rate and national rate. Both has a marginal rate as low as 12 percent and as high as 23 percent. That is the very nature of a progressive tax. And you have to add those taxes together too.

    Yes they do. Pharmaceut companies are one example of an industry with them.

    You should really learn to read what I say. I said one of the highest. And I've already proven that it doesn't have the lowest minimum wage in Europe.

    Health Care is still universal. Education is still free and public. Telefonia is still publicly owned by the banks.

    I fail to see where the capitalism is.

    This doesn't make any since. But it's irrelevant since the People's Party hasn't been in power for decades.

    They are merely copies of the original. When you develop a drug no other drug company is allowed to develop the generic until the patent on the drug runs out. However, Canada can make generics of American drugs since patent laws don't hold jurisdiction in Canada. Makes sense now?

    There are plenty of people who disagree with me who actually understand economics. Probably not how things should would but at least they understand prices and supply and demand. You don't really have knowledge of either.

    And this is why you don't understand economics. Economics is not just some machine which goes around and does things for people. The economy is a system of people pursuing their own incentives. Things just don't magically appear for people on a whim. Everything has an inherent cost. The moment you realize this is the moment you'll come to reality.

    Her. And there is nothing radical about Ana Rand. She isn't even a liberal. She rejected labels. You don't have a single clue as to what her philosophy is about.
     
  13. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    That's because your not very knowledgeable about what makes a market free and protectionist policies.

    Also I've never said it was socialist. We are referring to the PSOE. And I've been there once.
     
  14. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    WTF? Telefonica is private. Not public. The state doesn't have any participation in Telefonica.

    You can purchase telefonica stocks. My parents purchased and I had telefonica stocks.


    The top deficit is a recent reform that the PP and PSOE made in the Constitution, to put a limit in the deficit that could have the government.



    That it is contradictory with a socialist party. And catholic church coordinates with the state, and have many privileges, like the capacity to choose religion teachers and they are paid by the state.


    (*)(*)(*)(*), I've cited many pro-liberal decisions. We are talking about Spain. Althouh we don't have a lot of social answer, we have some. There are things that have to be done slowly, and more the liberal reforms. But PSOE has made this from the 80s. The labour protection in the 80s were much higher than today. Thanks to the PSOE Spain has less welfare system.

    And about healthcare, it's clear that we have for now public healthcare. But it is being dismantled. It is receiving attacks from all sides. We are starting to have a more American healthcare system. That means a worse healthcare system.
     
  15. Trinnity

    Trinnity Banned

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    Is that the best you can do? Post a pic of a little girl and claim she represents The Anonymous Group who ARE there?

    Your post is lame.
     
    Thunderlips and (deleted member) like this.
  16. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    She is one more of the people that is in this movement.
     
  17. SkullKrusher

    SkullKrusher Banned

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    [​IMG]


    except: just do not get the Moderators mad at you.
     
  18. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    Which market index trades telefonia stocks?

    So? That's what governments are suppose to do. Government's should be able to balance their budgets. You're pretty much saying that socialist are suppose to be idiots and have their debt accumulate to the point of where they default. Which wouldn't surprise me at all.

    And what does it have to do with the economy.


    It's still pretty much a welfare state. They're just not as much of a welfare state. During the summer the Socialist had to make painful cuts because they've realized that they couldn't afford it. Even Socialist realize that not everything is a free lunch once in a while.

    And about healthcare, it's clear that we have for now public healthcare. But it is being dismantled. It is receiving attacks from all sides. We are starting to have a more American healthcare system. That means a worse healthcare system.[/QUOTE]

    I have not read about the PSOE or the PP switching off the UHC. What I have heard was that Spain is contracting private companies to manage a public sector hospital. In some countries this also involves the private company in building the hospital. That doesn't necessarily mean that Spain is switching. And I haven't seen anything indicating the switch.
     
  19. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    IBEX35. The most important market index of Spain.


    Nothing, but socialism is not economy. I said that it was social conservatism, that goes against the socialist ideals.

    Another proof that PSOE is not socialist.



    It is possible making socialist reforms. But PSOE as I said is not socialist.

    If you want to find a Socialist party in Spain you have to go to IU(Izquierda Unida/United Left) or parties on the left of this like Anticapitalist Left(Izquierda anticapitalista).

    Yes, voucher system. Spain is switching. Slowly but switching. The quality of the medical service is going worse. Just to justify later you see, the public service is bad, we need to privatize it to improve the system. It is the plan.
     
  20. daft punk

    daft punk New Member

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    We don't take what a person produces, we take back what the workers have produced, the big companies. The owners did not produce the factories, the workers did. They will be taken into public ownership via legislation and that is that.
     
  21. daft punk

    daft punk New Member

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    lol!


    No matter how hard I try to point you in the direction of reality, you still come out with rubbish like this.

    Social Democracy in the modern sense of the word is not what Marx advocated, it is reformism, something he opposed. It is just capitalism with a few reforms. It is not moving towards socialism, it is helping to stabilise capitalism in fact.

    I'm not getting into Venezuela here, too big a subject to start now.


    In Indonesia the military killed a million civilians. This was done with the help of the British and Americans. It was done on behalf of international capitalism. Richard Nixon had called Indonesia "the richest hoard of natural resources, the greatest prize in south-east Asia". After the genocide...

    "a remarkable three-day conference sponsored by the Time-Life Corporation in Geneva. Led by David Rockefeller, all the corporate giants were represented: the major oil companies and banks, General Motors, Imperial Chemical Industries, British American Tobacco, Siemens, US Steel and many others. Across the table sat Suharto's US-trained economists who agreed to the corporate takeover of their country, sector by sector. The Freeport company got a mountain of copper in West Papua. A US/European consortium got the nickel. The giant Alcoa company got the biggest slice of Indonesia's bauxite. America, Japanese and French companies got the tropical forests of Sumatra. When the plunder was complete, President Lyndon Johnson sent his congratulations on "a magnificent story of opportunity seen and promise awakened"."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jan/28/indonesia.world


    same thing happened in Chile

    "Ralph McGehee, a senior CIA operations officer in the 1960s, describes the terror of Suharto's takeover in 1965-6 as "the model operation" for the US-backed coup that got rid of Salvador Allende in Chile seven years later. "The CIA forged a document purporting to reveal a leftist plot to murder Chilean military leaders," he wrote, "[just like] what happened in Indonesia in 1965.""
     
  22. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    Also we have Nicaragua, Honduras in the past and now, where are killed the civil rights defenders, reporters... Colombia...
     
  23. Anarcho-Technocrat

    Anarcho-Technocrat New Member

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    Anonymous lol's at you. Ty for our lulz.
     
  24. mazman34340

    mazman34340 New Member

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    Do not generalize the Anonymous 'group'!

    Its a very loosely tied group of internet users. Some parts attempt to destroy democracy, commit crimes, and promote stupidity. Others commit something almost heroic.

    I heard members of Anonymous assisted Egyptian protests by setting up communication lines that did not involve the forcibly-disabled internet.

    Then, there is the Internet Hate Machine that hacks into websites and promotes racism.

    I doubt even half of these Hate Machine members or other Anonymous trolls actually believe in what they say. They just want to start drama.

    Finally, an article written by a security expert (I would consider him an expert) suggested that in the center or part of Anonymous is a core group of hackers, most likely less than twenty members. Some of them have already been arrested (a few have shown they have clear mental issues), but a few others remain.

    The different agendas and desires of Anonymous are so numerous it would be ridiculous to group them together.
     
  25. daft punk

    daft punk New Member

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    This was a pic from the Wall Street demo, and was chosen purely at random, just like yours.

    This comrade is obviously from the youth cadres.
     

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