Stop complaining: Cost of living is fine.

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by MegadethFan, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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  2. ian

    ian New Member

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    Just comparing the cost of housing is an extremely poor and inaccurate comparison, for one thing the average house is now about twice the size and far superior in quality to any house built 50 years ago. For another, the average size of the family is shrinking so what we now have is less people living in far superior accomodation. Nothwithstanding all this average prices are a very poor indicator because with a lot of housing the value lies in the land the house is on and not in the house itself, the fact that people with wealth are quite happy to pay increasing premiums to live in particular areas is a sign of increasing average wealth and not the opposite. I could also name some areas in Australia where the price of a house has decreased in the last few years.
     
  3. ian

    ian New Member

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    I absolutely agree, the job for life mentality has to go. The workforce needs the resources and ability to adapt to the modern economic environment. This is where the government needs to concentrate their efforts, I also think the skilled migration scheme needs to dissapear entirely, while we have a disproportionate number of young people unemployed the large companies and corporations should not be allowed to import skilled workers. This is an area where we can and should not let the market place decide lest we end up like the US.
     
  4. ian

    ian New Member

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    And anyone who complains about the cost of living in Australia needs to be dropped into a village in Indonesia or other 3rd world country for a couple of weeks. The cost of living should suit you just fine.
     
    MegadethFan and (deleted member) like this.
  5. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Here have another one,
    [​IMG]

    Settle down and contemplate that the world is headed for a GFC and that it has already started to impact Australian as oxyboy shows,

    Its upon us so wake up dude and stop believing the oligarchy press.
     
  6. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Ian your no better, we have all the wealth that other nations envy yet the majority of this wealth doesn't go to Australia or Australians, it goes to a few rich foriegn moguels that are getting richer of the fat of Australia.

    You cannot compare Australia to third world countries.

    Its like saying you dont like living in Greece well then go to chad for a acouple of weeks FAIL.
     
  7. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Are you in Australia love?

    Or fairy land.
     
  8. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    You keep up with this rethoric but the fact is the data says you are wrong.
     
  9. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    Spoken by someone who truly is living in La La Land. I would wager that you have never held a full time job in your life.

    So we get rid of all welfare payments, all foreign aid and stop accepting refugees. These are a far greater burden to society at large than a few jobs in Australia being propped up with gov. assistance.
    Your ignorance and narrow mindedness is astounding.
     
  10. Oxyboy

    Oxyboy New Member

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    That's nice, you seem like a stats person.

    I just thought you may have a modicum of compassion for people losing their jobs. Where do you think the new jobs will come from?

    My point? Just conserned about people losing their jobs and means to live. That annoying compassion thing again, sorry.

    Your veiw is myopic, you seem to be equating everything to bail outs. There is industry all over Oz being adversly effected by cheap over seas competition. Many don't need bail outs, they just need a fair playing field, something we have never had.

    I remember in the mid 80's when Brazillian OJ concentrate started to land in OZ. The govenrments of the days did nothing about the inequities in import tarriffs, ours being 5% theirs 35+%. So many honest hard working people went under.

    We can't make out own jocks and sock and work boats. Manufaturing plants that kept communities together closed, towns died.

    Enjoy your statistics and remember; when you ever get laid off, i hope someone shows you more compassion than you are cabable of. Databoy.
     
  11. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    Why? Cant you answer the question?

    Yep, and believe it or not, I lost it because the business went under. I didn't go crying to the government for a bailout though. Same story for my brother.

    Why?

    Assisting someone who cant help themselves is not the same with giving money to someone who can get it.

    So you support giving money to banks so CEOs can retire comfortably? Its "assistance" so I guess you wholeheartedly support it eh? Think a bit before you write again. You havent thought through your proposition.
     
  12. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    I do, but compassion should entail sharing my wage for someone who can get another wage themselves.

    Other industries obviously - particularly mining atm. You think every worker in Australia works at Alcoa?

    Ok but where is compassion lacking in a system where is you lose your job you get another one and can thus easily and effectively acquire the means to live? No, YOUR system is lacking in compassion since it forces hard workers to work for others who can work for themselves.

    That's what the relief you describe is.

    A fair playing field is a free market.

    We should have put up tariffs on them as well then. We dont, however, have significant tariffs with China, or South Korea or India.

    Which towns? Similarly, would you prefer these towns be kept alive so that we can have economic crisis?

    Not worth a reply.
     
  13. Oxyboy

    Oxyboy New Member

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    Let's all move to the city and fly out to our mining jobs.
     
  14. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    You mean bills haven't risen?
     
  15. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    If that's what it takes.
     
  16. Oxyboy

    Oxyboy New Member

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    I don't like your vision of the future.

    Stay out of politics, hey.
     
  17. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    So I was right when I quessed you have never held a full time job in your life. I shows clearly in your attitude and world view.
    Because you have such a narrow, ignorant and myopic view, you cannot see or understand the big picture. Industry assistance is not given to the workers, it is provided to various industries for a variety of reasons.
    Where it is provided to keep an industry running which may fold without assistance it is done because it is a better option for the community as a whole than letting the industry fold. The assistance filters down through a vast network of other support industries and their support industries in turn. The wages being paid in turn support the whole community and all the businesses that provide goods and services at a community level and in turn all the businesses that provide goods and services to those businesses.
    When a manufacturing industry folds, you can multiply the job losses by 4 times the number of workers who worked directly in the industry. Stop for a moment and think about the stupid statement you have made above.
     
  18. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    What vision was that?

    Why? Because you cant refute me? Sorry, aint gonna happen.
     
  19. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    How so?

    How is it an ignorant view?

    Go through the reasons and I will show they are all invalid.

    But it isn't a better option. I've gone through this. Its expensive and pointless for the whole community and only benefits a few people.

    Total nonsense. Ultimately the costs are passed down to everyone because they have to pay for the wages of others.

    Total nonsense. Explain how a teacher benefits from subsidies to aluminum industry. Explain how a doctor gets a benefit from paying for the wages of a worker at Alcoa? What you are talking about is a fantasy version of economics. There is no 'trickle down' effect of subsidies. They do nothing but sustain weak businesses until there is some economic pressure in which they all keel over. In the meantime everyone else has to pay for something they get no benefit from.

    Show me evidence of that assertion.

    Is that statement addressed to me or you? I hardly see how it applies to me.
     
  20. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Your either very rich or very stupid if you cannot see what is happening in the world today.

    If it wasn't for the mining boom here in Australia, the IMF would be knocking on our door probably asking for austerity measures in order we pay back our loans.

    What statistics and who's data are you talking about, statistics are only as good as the input, in other words sh!t in sh!t out.

    Its like the climate change model which neglects many factors styling it to a particular outcome.

    Like i said sh!t in.........................
     
  21. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    I ain't rich and I ain't stupid, so why don't you just go ahead and back up the claim the world is going down hill.

    Maybe. But the fact remains the mining boom is here and when it begins to dissipate, people will move on to other industries.

    See the OP.

    You've been talking a lot of (*)(*)(*)(*) yourself. How about some evidence to prove your pessimistic claims?
     
  22. dumbanddumber

    dumbanddumber New Member

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    Do you live here!

     
  23. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    I'll repeat myself. If you think the country is going downhill, prove it.

    Most likely services industry, or new industries will emerge naturally.

    So why do you not consider the information sourced invalid? Could you point out its analytical errors please.

    No I dont know and I do live here. So like I said back up your claims.
     
  24. Adultmale

    Adultmale Active Member Past Donor

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    You are wrong and clearly too stupid to work it out for yourself.
    Lets say we have a factory employing 1000 workers churning out widgets which are exported and sold domesticaly. Every year the factory spends $200,000,000 on inputs. That's wages, goods and services to make the widgets. But now in order to compete with imported widgets from China they can only sell their widgets for $180,000,000 each year. They are $20,000,000 short just to break even. So they go to the government and say, "we have done everything we can by way of efficientcy but we just can't compete with cheaper imports from China. Can you please kick in the extra 20 mill we need to stay open". The government looks at the situation and says, "Sure, we'll give you the extra you need".
    Now we have the widget factory pouring $180,000,000 into the community and earning export dollars for the benefit of the whole country every year and government providing 20 million, a poultry amount.
    If the government said, "No, p!ss off" the government would have $20 mill to spend on something else but the widget factory would close, 1000 people directly would lose their jobs, plus all the jobs in the industries supplying the widget factory would go, plus all the jobs the spending of those workers supported would go, the government would cease getting all the tax from those wages (this alone would nearly amount to $20 mill), their export dollars would disappear and the community would lose $180 million.
    The money previously spent supporting industry and jobs in Australia is now spent supporting industry and jobs in China. Instead of money coming into Australia from exports, it all goes out with spending on imports.
    Say there was $150 mill worth of Australian made widgets sold in Australia. With assistance that $150 mill continues to circulate in Australia. Without assistance the whole (or most of) that $150 mill leaves Australia to fatten some Chinese industry moguls.
    Can you see the sense in providing government assistance to industry now? The governments $20 mill would have been well spent. And that's only on economic and social grounds, there are other reasons for doing it too.
     
  25. MegadethFan

    MegadethFan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, clearly :rolleyes:

    Here's what I think should happen:

    The government says, "no (*)(*)(*)(*) off and earn your own living." 20 million must be taken from other industries. This means the government needs to tax Australians $20 million to pay for a measly 1000 jobs. Consider doing this for every business that couldn't compete? That being said, the factory would not close, and there is no such thing as "cant do anything else." What they would do is lay off some people so they didn't have to pay them all, and could thus lower the price of the widgets. They could also set about improving the production capacity of their company to make the widgets at a cheaper price. There are a myriad of things they could do. By getting money, this means people in China cannot compete with Australians because Australians get a subsidy. Consequently consumers generally are not better off because they need to pay for other people's jobs. It is not the community that would lose 180 million if the business went under. The people that would lose the 180 million would be the company.

    Hows that? When did the Australian government start subsidize Chinese industry?

    Wrong. Because the Chinese widgets are cheaper, the consumers of them pay less, thus having more money to do other stuff.

    Can you see the sense in providing government assistance to industry now?
    No. The cost-benefit calculation inevitably means Aussies lose out generally, because people have to essentially pay the wages of others. The reality is jobs are created constantly. The guys form the factory could go work somewhere else, or get training/education, which I support improving, that allows them to reenter the labor force without strife.

    Go through the others because the ones you have mentioned here are flawed to say the least.
     

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