Obama's Gay Marriage Evolution is Offensive to God and America

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by sammy, May 15, 2012.

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  1. Ninth

    Ninth New Member

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    I'm sorry, have you been to Rome? You can't get more hierarchical and overbearing than Catholicism.
     
  2. Kessy_Athena

    Kessy_Athena New Member

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    ~_~;

    Sammy, stop a second, step back and listen to yourself. Do you realize how crazy you're sounding right now? The only to get that is to start with the conclusion that there are no contradictions and twist the text however you have to to make it fit. The sense of the second passage is obviously that humans were created first. And considering that we're dealing with a translation of a translation of a translation here, trying to completely change the sense of a passage on the basis of one "then" is just plain silly.
     
  3. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Catholocism has a long history of divine rule. I was referring to the Christianity of the bible.
     
  4. sammy

    sammy Well-Known Member

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    False! Yes, it would be best to look at the original Hebrew in context but we shall resort to analysis of the KJV translation, since most are not Hebrew experts here. We can still prove there is no contradiction.

    18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

    19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

    21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

    22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

    23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

    From the passages above you can not determine that God created animals after man.
    We already know from reading Genesis 1 that animals were created first.

    Verse 19 doesn't state when in time God created animals. It only states that God created animals and Adam was given the opportunity to name them. Obviously Adam couldn't name them unless
    man and the animals existed first. We can assume therefore that God created animals , then Adam and then later asked Adam to name the animals.

    NB! Adam didn't find the animals as suitable helpers or mates and so God created Eve, not Steve.
    God could have created Steve, but he didn't. Hence we can infer that gay marriage is
    not God's plan or creation, but man's. We can also infer beastiality wasn't God's plan.

    God's plan was to have one man and one wife as mates.

    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!
     
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would prefer the Clinton economy before Bush got his hands on it..
     
  6. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    You won't find much in the Encyclopedia Britanica description of the Protestant reformation. And Luthers writing marked the very beginning of the protestant reformation. Just on the first page of google dearch results on -martin luther protestant reformation democracy-

    “A Christian man is the most free lord of all, and subject to none” Martin Luther

    The Reformation Plants Seeds of Modern Democracy and Federalism
    http://teachergenius.teachtci.com/the-reformation-plants-seeds-of-modern-democracy-and-federalism/

    The Protestant Reformation led to modern concepts of Democracy
    http://www.medieval-life-and-times.info/medieval-religion/protestant-reformation.htm

    Reformation Faith & Representative Democracy

    Luther’s doctrine of “the priesthood of all believers” also heavily influenced the emergence of representative democracy.
    http://blog.acton.org/archives/2010-reformation-faith-representative-democracy.html

    In politics, Democracy is the freedom of people. Democracy is based on the idea of all people are equal. As Luther says, “every baptized Christian is a priest already, not by appointment or ordination from the Pope or any other man, but because Christ Himself has begotten him as a priest…in baptism”, it depicts the idea of all Christian are equal and Popes don’t have super power over other people.
    http://www.eportfolio.lagcc.cuny.ed...ESTERNCIVILIZATION/Protestant Reformation.doc

    The debate Martin Luther began nearly 500 years ago turned the world upside down. Democracy, civil rights and liberties, constitutional government, religious liberty, and the free market all find their roots in the Reformation.
    http://gospelpedlar.com/articles/Church History/reformation.html
     
  7. sammy

    sammy Well-Known Member

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    Well the US economy was far, far better under Clinton or Bush.

    The US economy is really in dire straights right now and getting worse.
     
  8. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Clinton had little to nothing to do with the economy of the 90s other than staying out of its way. Clinton was probably the most conservative Democratic President weve ever had. Clinton was the peak of the Democratic Leadership Council that oversaw a rightward shift of the Democratic party. Welfare Reform, Free Trade, School vouchers, Invasion of Iraq. The Democrats started to ape the republicans. Helped get them elected and helped the American economy, a rightward shift of the democrats on the left. Similiar to Labour becoming New Labour in the UK, distancing themselves from their socialist origins.

    Obama has undone it all.
     
  9. Montoya

    Montoya Banned

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    What a ridiculously uneducated statement.
     
  10. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    The Bible is a product of the Catholic Church.......... it was compiled and edited by the Catholic Church in 200-300 AD.
     
  11. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Once again it must be pointed out that beliefs in God are a personal matter and "God" is not defined by religious institutions or religious texts. God is whatever the individual believes God to be. As I believe I noted earlier if a person believes the Flying Spaghetti Monster is God then the Flying Spaghetti Monster is God. As absurd as that might be it is a fact.
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Bush definitely passed the country off in worse shape then he got it..... the economy was snowballing out of control, the bank were failing, but we survived it and now are moving forward

    let me ask you, how long did you think it would take to clean up Bush's mess? it's gonna be years before we get back to where we were, no president has a magic wand, destroying an economy any ol Bush can do, repairing takes much longer
     
  13. philxx

    philxx New Member

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    yeap ,they should think about the personal character of god thinking a little more ,for they thinks that faith -thinking is equal in quality to the scientific variety.Where did that absurd proposition come from ,oh i know the relativist post-modernist twaddle crowd.
     
  14. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    You dont have a clue as to what I am even talking about. Thus your response, void of even a shred of substance, relevant to the topic of discussion. And I have a masters in economics and doctor of Jurisprudence as far as education. 52 years old while I suspect you were probably a teenager during the 90s.
     
  15. sammy

    sammy Well-Known Member

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    The US economy tanked as soon as Obama was apparent to win the election, The Stock Market dived as proof. We need to move backward to the Bush/Clinton era when jobs were plentiful, real wages were higher, opportunity existed.

    Even Obama had to admit today that the US economy is bad.
    He lied at first and said it was fine, then he flip flopped and admitted
    it isn't.

    When the US president admits the economy is bad, it's really far worse and growing worse by minute. Until Romney is apparent to win, the US economy is screwed.

    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!
     
  16. philxx

    philxx New Member

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    hold it together brother ,crickey ,its a generational thing the entitled generation that has no bearings in relationship to history they get keep getting told that they are special and failure is not existant and science is just a form of ideas equal with whatever trash comes along .

    i blame the Parents ,that would be you maybe ,but as i am 50 and kiddieless ,YIPPEEE,I can blame the Parents for the rude crude and unattractive generation.Not the kids themselves.
     
  17. sammy

    sammy Well-Known Member

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    False! That is an opinion, not fact.

    A fact would be a truth that can be verified.
    FACT: Barack Obama was a socialist/communist party member.

    http://www.keywiki.org/index.php/Barack_Obama_and_the_New_Party/Progressive_Chicago


    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!
     
  18. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    No, the economy underwent the shock of a realestate price bubble. Prices were way overvalued, leading to the required collapse of those prices. A needed and inevitable occurence. 1st quarter 2008 saw 6.7% drop in GDP. By the 2nd quarter this had slowed to a .7% drop. By the 3rd quarter we had 1.7% growth. Recession was over. Price corrections are temporary events.
     
  19. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    now that is a new Bush excuse I have not heard before, it's Obama fault before he even won the election, get real
     
  20. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    one of the major things hurting this economy then and now is foreign outsourcing, it's not only effecting America, it's effecting the world, you can't pay everyone slave wages and expect to have a prosperous economy

    less jobs, equals less purchasing and less taxes collected equals corporate cutbacks.... and around and round it goes

    people can't pay their mortgages if they don't have jobs


    .
     
  21. Kessy_Athena

    Kessy_Athena New Member

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    You can't use the proposition you are trying to prove (that there are no contradictions in the Christian's book) in your proof. That's circular logic, and is completely invalid. It's equivalent to to saying that since there are no contradictions, there can't be any contradictions.

    The phrasing "And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof." is downright bizarre if animals existed before humans. Anyone with half a brain can clearly see that the sense of the passage is that Yahweh created Adam, and then created assorted animals and brought them to Adam for him to name them. If animals were created first, then Adam would never have been alone. Why then would Yahweh say that it's not good for Adam to be alone? That makes no sense at all.

    Face it, you decided on what you believed before you ever laid eyes on the text, and are simply twisting the plain meaning to suit your own ideas. Only someone who doesn't care what the text has to say would abuse it in such a way. If you don't care what the text actually says, why bother with it all?

    In any case, you only even tried to answer half the contradictions I pointed out. I really want to hear your reasoning that will make 40,000 = 4,000. It should be hilarious, and I'll bet it involves dividing zero by zero.

    I honestly don't give a flying flip what Yahweh's plans are. Considering that his previous plans have several times involved mass murder and (quite literally) crimes against humanity, I find it extraordinarily unlikely that any of his plans will have humanity's best interests at heart. Why in the world would you follow the plans of someone who blows up cities for sh*ts and giggles?
     
  22. sammy

    sammy Well-Known Member

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    This verse doesn't indicate what help meet is, but subsequent verses indicate it is Eve.

    Help in no way means animals by the way..

    God is the all-knowing creator, since he created Adam, he best knew what the suitable helper
    should be. It would be illogical to expect him to make a mistake in this.

    Again, Genesis 1 indicates animals come first in creation.
    You should not try to contradict Genesis 1 by an imposing a timeline that isn't specifically there.
    in Genesis 2:19.


    Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!

    If Genesis2:19 included words that explicitly indicated the timeline, that would be different, but it doesn't.
    It simply states 1) God created animals from the ground 2) God brought them to Adam 3) Adam named them

    It is analytically proper to assume that God simply gathered the existing animals for Adam to name and nothing more.
    Don't create a contradiction purposely or twist it's meaning. Some gay groups attempt to distort
    what he Bible says, to satisfy their desires. How silly is that?

    2:19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!
    Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!
     
  23. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament

    Historically monotheism originated around the 6th Century BC but was not established in the Bible until roughly 4,600 years later if we believe that the Books of Moses were even written by Moses in around 1400 BC.

    http://www.wisegeek.com/when-was-the-bible-written.htm

    As noted though based upon linquistic studies (language evolves over time) currently the general belief is that the Books of Moses were written by at least four different authors based upon their use of language and the differences in the writings.

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_tora1.htm

    Obviously a verbal tradition of Moses was handed down from generation to generation in the Hebrew religion but based upon the study of the writings scholars can clearly identify differences between at least four different authors related to these books in the Bible. Far from reflecting a unified "inspired by God" commonality there are distinctive differences and even conflict between the writings.

    Those individuals that cite these books as being "authoritive" obviously fail to recognize or are completely unaware of these facts. When reading the Books of Moses a person has to understand that they are reading the expressed beliefs of individuals loosely based upon the oral traditions of the Hebrew religion. They are personal writings that have all of the error and personal opinions and beliefs of the authors that are, in many cases, contradicted by the other authors of these books. The Books of Moses are not a unified belief but instead a compilation of beliefs held by different authors over a span of hundreds of years. Often times these writings reflect pure myth and superstition such as the written belief that the "Creation" occurred in 5315 BC with mankind originating after that date when we know that the Earth and universe are billions of years old and modern man evolved around 250,000 years ago.

    http://www.bible.ca/b-bible-timeline-religious-history.htm

    Anyone looking for accuracy related to anything other than the differing religious beliefs of the several authors in the Books of Moses which were based upon both limited knowledge of history and religious myths handed down over hundreds of years is going to come up short. There is simply no evidence that the Books of Moses are anything other than personal religious beliefs of the authors that, in some cases, conflicted with each other.
     
  24. Kessy_Athena

    Kessy_Athena New Member

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    And yet again you're starting with what you want to believe about Yahweh and completely ignoring what your book has to say about him. You say that your book is the word of your god, and yet you seem to consider your own opinions to be far superior to what your god has to say. Why is that? You want a perfect god to look after you so much that you'll completely ignore what your own book says to try to make Yahweh what you want him to be. Aren't you putting your own emotional needs ahead of what your god has to say? Aren't you willfully ignoring the word of god because you don't want to hear what he has to say?

    Has it occurred to you that there's another way to interpret this situation using your assumptions that does not involve twisting the text to say what you mean? If this book is the direct word of Yahweh, and everything in it was deliberately put there by Yahweh, then might it not be possible that the presence of contradictions is Yahweh telling you that it's just a book, and you shouldn't take it too seriously? Might it not be that Yahweh is telling you that life is too complicated for any book to ever address all the possible issues that may arise in it? That the real message is that a book is simply not an adequate medium to convey everything there is to know about life, and that Yahweh is telling you to think for yourself?
     
  25. sammy

    sammy Well-Known Member

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    False! I provided the biblical verses from the KJV translation and analyzed them in a logical way
    without any addition. It would be better to see the original Hebrew but the KJV is a pretty decent translation
    according to experts.

    There was no ignoring done. Each related verse was examined and there was no logical contradiction
    found.

    Injecting words into what is written in the Bible is blasphemy and
    surely you could possibly arrive at an interpretation that is to your liking
    this way. Don't insert words into Genesis 2:19 that aren't present!


    Even man's laws don't permit an individual to change the rules or history to their liking.
    Unless you are a president like Obama whom wants to change the US constitution
    to suit his corrupt goals and ideal.


    In case you feel that something is wrong in the United States today, you aren't crazy.
    Obama has sent the United States into a decline never before seen in it's history. More than 500K college graduates entered the job market in May and less than 69K new private sector jobs were available for them. You do the math!
     
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