Arleigh Burke class destroyer Vs Daring class Destroyer.

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by antileftwinger, Feb 2, 2012.

  1. antileftwinger

    antileftwinger Banned

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    Which is the best destroyer in the world.

    Daring class having the best radar and tracking systems, but the Arleigh Burke class has more missiles for more and different targets.

    This isn't about ship on ship, but which would be better for a navy to have.
     
  2. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    The Arleigh Burke's are multi-mission ships. They can do anti-sub, anti-air, ABM, anti-satellite, gunfire support, carry anti-ship missiles, and launch Tomahawk cruise missiles.

    The Daring's are specialized anti-aircraft destroyers with only limited capability in other areas.
     
  3. mepal1

    mepal1 New Member

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    We have been over this question before.

    Both are superb ships, but the 'Arleigh Burkes' have an allround capability, whilst at present the 'Darings' are solely AA Destroyers........though the 'Darings' were designed to be fitted with 'Harpoon' and 'Tomahawk' missiles, but during ship build these systems weren't fitted due to costs. They may be fitted in future refits, particularly the Harpoons, as these missiles are available from mothballed ships.
    2 x 'Phalanx' CIWS has recently been fitted to 'Daring'

    At present the 'Darings' can blast anything out of the sky, but can only engage other surface warships and land targets with the use of the 4.5" gun.

    I presume the 'Arleigh Burkes' are the best allround warship around at the moment....and the Americans are quite happy to keep improving them, and building more of them, at the expense of newer more radical ships such as the 'Zumwalts', because the 'Burkes' are tried and tested.
     
  4. Nosferax

    Nosferax Banned

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    The american could also go the Japanese way and build a bigger and improved 'Arleigh Burkes'. Look at the Kongô and Atagô class destroyer/cruiser.
     
  5. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    First hostile submarine comes along and the Daring 'cans are artificial reefs.

    The Burkes are as good a ASW platform as you can have without being a submarine yourself.
     
  6. mepal1

    mepal1 New Member

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    I forgot, having had a tour around the Type 45 Destroyer 'Daring' it does have a helicopter hanger filled with anti-submarine torpedoes, so it does have some defence against those sub boys!
     
  7. Nosferax

    Nosferax Banned

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    Not if your heli isn't airborne...
     
  8. Black Monarch

    Black Monarch New Member

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    This one. You can never have too many missiles.
     
  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The big difference is that the Burke's have been in service for 20 years and continually improved while the Daring's haven't had that chance yet.

    Remember, the early Burke's did not even have helicopter hangars for ASW helicopters.
     
  10. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    A Landing Ship Helicopter has an impressive helicopter hangar, but is just a target for a modern submarine.

    The Daring is nothing but a smaller,faster LHS with a lot of anti-aircraft capability.

    The Daring is a throwback to the old soviet single purpose 'cans.
     
  11. antileftwinger

    antileftwinger Banned

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    Or it's a stealth destroyer, who knows.
     
  12. mepal1

    mepal1 New Member

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    I dont think the 'Darings' were solely designed for AAW, its just that cost cutting has so far prevented the ships from being kitted out with anti-ship and land attack missiles (how many times do i have to keep pointing this out?).

    Anyway, if you were in an aircraft you wouldn't want to be anywhere near these ships in a combat environment!

    btw: HMS Dauntless the second in class ship has been deployed to the Falklands now, and that has really wound up the Argies.
     
  13. antileftwinger

    antileftwinger Banned

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    Be fair now, the Type 45's have gone way over budget, and if they were fitted with all they should be fitted with they would cost 1.2 billion, no navy not even the US can afford that. The main reason for the cost is the ships started out as being built by the UK, France and Italy, which pushed costs up because like with Eurofighter the UK and France wanted different things. Most people would agree that the UK has better destroyers and jets than France. It just goes back to what we both say the government should spend more on defence and mainly the navy.

    Mainly if you were an aircraft from Argentina. Do you know if the Mount Pleasant air base has any missile defence systems?

    I think HMS Daring with all weapons systems and fully stocked with missiles and a trained crew is the best destroyer ever, but we don't have that yet.

    I will also say there isn't a better ship to defence the Falklands from air craft, which is in my view why the RN wanted it, just for another war with Argentina. People may say the RN learned nothing from the 2nd Argentine attempt to take the Falklands but it has, it's just taken along time to make new weapons, because of lack of investment and fighting pointless American wars under Labour, which have cost the UK over £100 billion, and over 600 people killed. This is why we need a Conservative government.

    We are also now sending a nuclear submarine, I not sure which class, and have plans in place for a rapid reaction force to an Argentine attack. But I am not sure how anything can be rapid unless it's based at or on Ascension, I would like us to move more jets, para's and ships their.
     
  14. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    No question, the Arleigh Burke class. Hands down. Had this discussion before.

    Who cares? Stealth only protects from radar, not eyes on or satellite detection.

    And this would have no defense against modern munitions, which are camera sighted and guided. We can aim missiles and bombs into a specific window of a building. And fire them from greater distances then the Burke can return fire.

    I can see a group of F/A-18 Super Hornets flying in slow circles, taking group shots against one of these. Fire a salvo of missiles, then take off before the Type 45 has a hope of trying to engage them in return.

    From all I have seen, the Type 45 is really an attempt at an air defense ship, mostly concentrating on an anti-missile role. But they have rather small ammunition bunkers (48 missiles as opposed to the Burke's 96+ missiles). Plus it has nothing to compare with the new RIM-174 with it's 240 km range.

    The best chance I see would be to have aircraft make attack runs at extreme range, then when the ship fires at them immediately turn tail and run. Rinse and repeat until all the long range missiles are gone. Then you can much more safely approach to beyond the 30 km range of the Aster 15 and let go with impunity.

    And in a situation like San Carlos, this would be a sitting duck. You see, the Argentines did not play fair there. They came in over a hill where the radar had no coverage. And since the missiles on the Type 45 need at least 2 km to arm themselves, this platform would be almost worthless.
     
  15. unclebob

    unclebob New Member

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    On this forum, it will be the American one.

    End thread.
     
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Not true. I look at many things when giving my opinion of what is a better piece of military hardware.

    When comparing these two ships, it mostly comes down to the much larger magazine of the Arleigh Burke, along with the greater missile range. Combined this is an advantage much greater then that of the Type 45.

    And the OP did specifically state it was not to be a comparison in a surface naval battle.

    So by comparing the capabilities within the parameters given, the Burke class is of a much greater asset. After all, these ships are designed for one purpose and one purpose only: To protect other surface ships.

    The ability to fire longer range missiles, as well as having more of them makes the Burke a better ship to have.

    Now if the mission was to sneak up as close to shore as possible and secretly drop off a covert operations team, my parameters would have been different, and I would have given the advantage to the Type 45.
     
  17. antileftwinger

    antileftwinger Banned

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    Which ship would you say is more cost effective? Daring needs less sailor's and has cheaper missiles, but Arleigh Burke is cheap.
     
  18. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    To me, cost does not matter a (*)(*)(*)(*)ed bit. The idea is to save the lives of the sailors and to protect the fleet.

    However, for the mission involved and the cost involved, once again no question the Arleigh Burke.

    A "Stealth Destroyer" is of absolutely no use at all when you are guarding a gigantic "stealthy as a mountain" aircraft carrier.
     
  19. Sly

    Sly New Member Past Donor

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    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LSzgN2Z-0s"]Daring Class vs. Arleigh Burke class - YouTube[/ame]
     
  20. clarkatticus

    clarkatticus New Member

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    In the end, one must look at the role of the said destroyer. All ships made today are role players, neither of these destroyers are made to patrol alone in a wartime situation. The Daring class will have more stealth and speed, integrated into the British fleet it will be supplemented by their own subs and tactical anti-sub naval aircraft. The American navy is much more defined by integrated system of command and control and all it's ships are capable of multitasking. In the end though, it will be the ordinance and range that will decide capability, given the roles I think the comparison is a wash.
     
  21. Dan_The_Barbarian

    Dan_The_Barbarian Newly Registered

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    Since when have people made comparisons between warships,and ignore what warships do which is fight other warships?
    Arleigh Burke a good all round fighting ship.Good mix of weapons and sensors.
    Excellant land attack and anti space debri abilities.
    Its just a shame that this warship is average in the anti ship role.Average in the anti air role.poor in the ASW role.
    Arleigh Burke.The ship that can do it all,and everything it does is average.
    Jack of all trades,master of none.

    A better comparison would be to the Type 23 multi purpose frigate.
     
  22. antileftwinger

    antileftwinger Banned

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    By the type 23 is half it's size.
     
  23. mepal1

    mepal1 New Member

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    I think the Type 45 is an excellent anti air warfare ship.......BUT the Arleigh Burkes are a better all rounded warfare ship.

    i.e. as of present the Type 45' havnt been fitted with Harpoon anti-ship missiles or Tomahawk land attack missiles, plus there are no torpedo tubes on the ship. The Type 45 relies on its helicopter for its anti-submarine torpedoes and Sea-Skua anti ship missiles..but thats not as good as having the ship fitted systems.

    Its all down to lack of funds at the moment? alledgedly.

    The Harpoons we have (taken from the decommissioned type 22 frigates), and could be fitted at the next refit.......so far only a pair of Phalanx CIWS guns have been added to the lead ship of the class.
     
  24. antileftwinger

    antileftwinger Banned

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    I really makes you think what is the point in building a ship that costs £1 billion if you can't fit it with all the weapons needed.
     
  25. unclebob

    unclebob New Member

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    I think its a case of it being ready to fit, if needed.

    There is no significant threat to us at the moment, and there is that recession thing to think about.

    No threat + Not much spare cash = Why fit the systems now?
     

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