Time for the United States to FORCE a Peaceful Settlement.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by AboveAlpha, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    A spanking? Take away their toys? who is going to do that? Are you not a little facetious? Here is a report from the scene please study it before you utter more nonsense.

    June 28, 2013

    "And Here We Go"

    Secretary of State Kerry is convinced that it's necessary to make progress with negotiations before September, when the UN convenes for the new season. Otherwise, goes his reasoning, Abbas will go to the UN with more unilateral plans.

    Well, sorry about that. Israel cannot negotiate by herself, or concede what should not be conceded, to stop Abbas's UN shenanigans.

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    Earlier in June, Kerry addressed the American Jewish Committee Global Forum in Washington, and explained to his Jewish audience how serious the consequences would be if no deal were to be reached:

    “Think about what could happen next door. The Palestinian Authority has committed itself to a policy of nonviolence. … Up until recently, not one Israeli died from anything that happened from the West Bank until there was a settler killed about a month ago.

    “But if that experiment is allowed to fail, ask yourselves: What will replace it? What will happen if the Palestinian economy implodes, if the Palestinian Security Forces dissolve, if the Palestinian Authority fails? … The failure of the moderate Palestinian leadership could very well invite the rise of the very thing that we want to avoid: the same extremism in the West Bank that we have seen in Gaza or from southern Lebanon."

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/abdullah-tells-kerry-israels-actions-undermining-peace/

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Lest someone take Kerry at his word, I must respond to his seriously faulty arguments:

    The PA has NOT committed itself to a policy of nonviolence. Low scale terrorism -- in the form of such actions as lethal rock throwing -- takes place almost every day. Such terrorism has been on the upswing for some time now.

    While the IDF, acting nightly in PA areas, stops major terrorist acts from taking place -- arresting terrorists who are planning attacks, confiscating weapons, etc. The case is precisely the opposite of what Kerry describes. Were the IDF no long to operate in those areas because of an Israeli pullback, then we would see more terrorism. It depends on our ability to act, not on PA good will.

    What is more, the PA leadership is most decidedly NOT moderate. That leadership celebrates jihadists as heroes, utilizes textbooks that do not recognize the legitimacy of Israel, and in Arabic actively promotes the notion that all of the land from the river to the sea belongs to them. Moderate, my foot.

    See Khaled Abu Toameh's "Palestinians: 'No Jews Allowed," on the issue of Palestinian Arab moderation:

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3783/palestinians-no-jews-allowed

    As to the implosion of the economy -- what we are looking at here is enormous corruption among the leaders of the PA, a corruption that prevents a viable economy from developing and has generated a welfare mentality (the PA eternally supported by other nations). Establishment of an independent Palestinian Arab state would not substantially change this, and its leaders would still have their hands out.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    There has been a series of reports indicating that Abbas would be willing to meet Netanyahu just once, informally -- not in the framework of first negotiations, but without those pre-conditions, to discuss the negotiations. It is believed -- and has been widely reported -- that he was planning to tell the world that he was willing, but that Netanyahu was not cooperative when they met. From there, he would throw up his hands and take himself to the UN.

    http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_opinion.php?id=4763

    It's not going to happen. Netanyahu says he is willing (eager?? -- see more below) for real negotiations that lead somewhere but will not participate in one-time game playing.

    And even Kerry has voiced suspicions about Abbas's intentions.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Kerry's first stop was Amman, where he met yesterday with King Abdullah. I want to cut the king some slack, because I know he is playing a game that involves his self-preservation. And yet, I am mightily irked when I read that he told Kerry that Israel was the stumbling block.

    But at least according to Barak Ravid of Haaretz, US pressure on the PA has increased considerably, as Kerry now says that the Obama administration sees Abbas as the recalcitrant party.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...reconditions-for-peace-talks.premium-1.531999

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Kerry was here for a dinner meeting with Netanyahu last night, met for lunch with Abbas in Amman, and may return here after Shabbat. There have been no official pronouncements as yet but Kerry is apparently planning a press conference Motzei Shabbat (after Shabbat).

    Netanyahu's statements -- that Israel does not want a "binational state," and that a peace agreement is necessary to avoid this, if required security can be achieved -- have left a lot of people scratching their heads in confusion with regard to his true position. Is he serious, or still playing that game?

    http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-...tate-but-must-be-able-to-defend-itself-318032

    There are analysts who see him as having genuinely moved left. But, at the very same time, protests from within the Likud party suggest movement right -- and even, as some see it, the possibility of a Likud split down the road. There is, as well, the stance of Habayit Hayehudi head Naftali Bennett, that the two- state solution is dead, indicating a broader dissent within the coalition. The advent of Shabbat does not allow me to discuss this at length now.

    What is clear is that Netanyahu could not, by himself, control the outcome, in the highly unlikely event that negotiations proceeded -- his clout within his party has diminished. But I suggest here that we cannot totally discount the possibility, however slight, that the prime minister, knowing full well that his government would not support an agreement that requires major relinquishment of land, feels emboldened in publicly embracing "peace negotiations."

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    See an Israel Hayom interview of Aayan Hirsi Ali -- who has renounced the Islamic religion in which she was raised -- that touches on the question of peace negotiations (emphasis added):

    "From the perspective of the Arab leaders, reaching a two-state solution is to betray God, the Koran, the hadith and the tradition of Islam.

    "...Islam is an Orthopraxy, Islam has a goal. So if you are a true Muslim, you must fight for that goal. You can achieve a temporary peace or truce, but it is not ultimate, not everlasting. It is not just about the territory. Because the territory does not belong to the people; it belongs to God. So for a Palestinian leader -- even if he is secular, even an atheist -- to leave the negotiating room with the announcement of a two-state solution would mean that he would be killed the minute he walks out.

    "...Europeans and Americans -- and I do not refer merely to the leadership, but to people in general -- when they have a problem, they think there must be some kind of compromise on the table. What they cannot accept is that one party would say 'the only rational outcome is our complete victory.' If you put aside the Israeli-Palestinian situation, you see components of this culture in the events in Syria, in Lebanon. You've seen it with Mubarak. There is a winner and there is a loser."

    http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=10309

    If only...if only Western leaders would remove their blinders and understand this reality.

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    © Arlene Kushner. This material is produced by Arlene Kushner, functioning as an independent journalist. Permission is granted for it to be reproduced only with proper attribution.

    If it is reproduced and emphasis is added, the fact that it has been added must be noted.


    See my website at www.arlenefromisrael.info Contact Arlene at akushner18@gmail.com

    This material is transmitted by Arlene only to persons who have requested it or agreed to receive it. If you are on the list and wish to be removed, contact Arlene and include your name in the text of the message.

    - - - Updated - - -
     
  2. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I understand this issue based upon First Hand Experiences and I can tell you that if it was up to me I would put the Leadership of both sides in a Locked Room with no food or water...but just two copies of the Road Map drawn up on indestructible plastic paper and a single pen...then have Mettalica and Tool pumped into the room at about 115 decibels with boosted points upon the Graphic EQ at 200 to 600 cycles...1500 to 2000 cycles and at 5000 to 5700 cycles.

    Then I would have several Variable Speed Strobe Lights working along with several 70 inch HD Screen flashing a myriad of disturbing pictures at 6 per second.

    There would be ONE toilet...a Coffee Can and instead of toilet paper I would have sheets of Xtra-Fine Sand Paper.


    That agreement would be signed in about 30 minutes.

    AboveAlpha
     
  3. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    It is a very good point and I am with you that giving aid to either side is counter productive.

    AboveAlpha
     
  4. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    You know...I don't CARE about the (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing of EITHER SIDE.

    I want this thing done and it would seem some people in the U.S. Government are FINALLY waking up!

    If the Israeli's and Palestinian's don't want to sign the agreement...FINE!

    Both can remain in a war like state WITHOUT Billions of Dollars in U.S. AID.

    AboveAlpha
     
  5. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    What you have posted here is the old plan.

    The new plan is acceptable to both sides in the House and Senate and it is to be done in December 2013. A low level U.S. Envoy...NOT the Secretary of State...as this will give both sides the hint that we are DONE with their petty fighting and bickering...this low level U.S. Envoy will inform both sides that they have 4 months to sign the the Road Map and if they don't...they get ZERO U.S. AID.

    AboveAlpha
     
  6. happy fun dude

    happy fun dude New Member

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    Does that include diplomatic aid in the form of UN Security Council vetoes as well? No more vetoing any and all resolutions against Israel?
     
  7. stretch351c

    stretch351c New Member

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    Arafat was offered 98% of what he wanted. He walked away.
     
  8. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    That is not my area of expertise.

    I would be the guy who's team set up the room and the strobes and speakers and would stand outside listening to the cries and complaints of such men.

    AboveAlpha...p.s...Even after they signed...I would have them hand me the signed papers through the door...relock it leaving them inside...turn back on the strobes and loud music and walk away.
     
  9. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    That Palestinian Leader skimmed several BILLION DOLLARS from the U.S. Aid Palestinians received and upon his death the Palestinian Authority fought to get that money back from the hands of his family.

    They never got the money back.

    AboveAlpha
     
  10. stretch351c

    stretch351c New Member

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    True, but not really germane to the topic unless you are suggesting that Arafat turned away from peace to continue to skim money from US aid. Which wouldn't surprise me.
     
  11. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    America is impotent. It is in retreat worldwide. And it faces millions of its own citizens who hate it with a passion.
     
  12. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Territory gained in war cannot be annexed.
     
  13. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I have been asked to do...JOBS...specific to this issue over 3 Decades and I will tell you I feel like a F@#&^#@ Babysitter pulling two little siblings apart and as I do it is inevitable that as both these little children swing at each other I end up taking a shot to the chin in the process.

    Unlike every other...JOB...that I and my Team have accepted...when I end up being Talked Into...taking one specific to this topic I don't have the autonomy I would usually have due to Political Consideration.

    This drives me NUTZ...as I have to sometimes scold such fighting parties and handle the situations arising with Kid Gloves. If it was any other...JOB...I would grab those from either side by the scruff of the neck and throw them to the ground saying..."Take a good long look! If you two don't come to an agreement the both of you will become very soon familiar with the soil of the Earth!"

    But instead I have to act as Nanny and Babysitter as these two sides and their Leadership are quite possibly the most infuriating bunch of whining, complaining, corrupt, lying, backstabbing, vicious little bastards I have ever dealt with and if it was up to me I would just as soon call in a B-52 Strike and wipe this S#!%*&@^ of a region right off the face of the map!

    But...NOOOooooOOOOoo. We have to coddle both sides and several times in particular we had to spend weeks just to get both sides to show us where some money went that was supposed to be used for something specific that vanished.

    AboveAlpha
     
  14. Jack Napier

    Jack Napier Banned

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    Correct. Or rather, it would have to be purged of the Jews that ran it's news flow, media, Congress and politicians, before it would do anything other than just be big Jew leaning over to give little Jew a kiss on the curlers.
     
  15. stretch351c

    stretch351c New Member

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    I don't envy you your situation. It's nearly impossible to do your .....job, when your hands are tied by those who have another agenda. May you and your team come home safe. I'm sure you will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that until the people there value the lives of their children more than they value their religion, there will be no peace.
     
  16. ThirdTerm

    ThirdTerm Well-Known Member

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    Lord Mountbatten proposed a partition plan for British India in 1947 upon its independence and the Mountbatten Plan was accepted by both parties and India and Pakistan were separated with the passage of the Indian Independence Act. The US cannot impose a peace settlement on Israel in this manner because it's impossible to come up with a plan that is acceptable for both Israel and Palestine and there is no political will to risk American lives by inserting American soldiers between the IDF and the Palestinian National Security Forces.
     
  17. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Oh gee, now you show respect for international law all of a sudden. Is that what your arab states believed in when they tried repeatedly to wipe Israel off the map? How about UN resolution 181, how about 242, how about your country's refusal to recognize a fellow UN member state's right to exist? Are you so in compliance with UN resolutions and international laws that you have the right to lecture others? How about your disgusting treatment of Palestinian refugees who are treated worse than cattle in your country while you proclaim their cause to be your own? Is that in compliance with international law?


    At any rate goomba, territory gained in defensive wars can't be just demanded back either, the loser has to negotiate in good faith, make true peace and be willing to make serious concessions. When is this going to happen, goomba?
     
  18. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    No...it would seem to be YOU who hates us with a Passion.

    Americans represent all races, creeds, colors, ethnic backgrounds and cultures upon Planet Earth.

    There is no person that LOVES America more than a person who has immigrated to the United States. I know many such people and they were all extremely PROUD when they became U.S. Citizens and voted for the first time.

    In my town there is a family that immigrated here from Iran. They own and run a Breakfast/Luncheon Eatery and I have gone there to eat and talked to the Father and Mother of this family many times.

    They told me their difficult struggle to get out of Iran as well as how the Iranian Religious Police beat the Mother for driving with her daughter unescorted by a male family member and without a veil.

    The fist born male of this family is now 21 and is a member of the U.S. Army. He repairs Choppers and will get money for College once his Military obligations are over.

    The kids Mom and Dad have a picture of their son in uniform next to the American Flag on the wall behind the bar of their restaurant. I was there the day they put it up as it came to their place while I at lunch by FEDEX.

    I could see how PROUD both parents were as both had tears in their eyes as they had already had a picture frame waiting even though their son had sent one with the picture. His father told me...It is alright. My son sent me several photos. I will hand one at my house and another in the back office here.

    You have no comprehension upon what it is to be such people striving for Freedom and a chance for a better life...and to be lucky enough to make it and get into the United States as this is not easy....and as both Mother and Father told me.....

    .....When we first landed in New York we were worried. Even though it was many years after the Hostage Crisis we worried about how Americans would view us and how they would treat us as we were IRANIAN and still had not fully learned the English Language.

    We came to this area because we had friends in Iran who had family in this part of the United States and we were told they would help us...which they did. We were so scared and would barely even look the average American in the eyes at first but then after about a week we started to notice something.

    No one cared what we looked like and as we looked at them we noticed that there were all kinds of people in America not just White Cowboys.

    We were able to learn English for free as lessons were given at no charge through some state run community programs and we both worked hard and saved money in order to eventually buy this business and then buy the building.

    On September 11th 2001 this family watched the Horror in New York and a few days later they placed the biggest American Flag I have ever seen on the side of their building and they told me they were extremely angry that anyone would do such a terrible thing to their country.

    They have become Citizens and so has their son and they have two children who were born in the U.S. They consider the United States...THEIR COUNTRY...and have told me that they consider themselves to be Americans and are so to a far greater degree than they ever were Iranians.

    You have ZERO understanding of the LOVE of COUNTRY that people like them and others who come from all around the world to live the American Dream and although the U.S. is not perfect...it is much better by far a place to live and work in than any other place or country on Earth.

    Just ask my Iranian American friends. If they read what you posted they would straighten you out in short order.

    AboveAlpha
     
  19. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    You're the one referring to legalities.

    I don't see why it should when Israel refuses to stop building ILLEGAL settlements.
     
  20. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    I merely corrected a lie about a legality. and then I showed your dishonesty and duplicity about legalities as your own country together with other arab/muslim states are by far the worst violators of all international, human rights and humanitarian laws on the books.


    You did not before the settlements either, there are no settlements in Lebanon btw so what's your problem? You are full of absurd and cheap excuses to hide your hatred and war-mongering so look in the mirror when it comes to legalities or matters of peace (or lack of thereof) and don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.
     
  21. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    At this point...every time both sides have to be DRAGGED to a meeting of both sides such a meeting degrades into insults, accusations and all either side cares about is getting ONE UP on the other side.

    What really sucks is that in such meetings which are the precursors to large scale Public Summits...here we are expecting to have Professionals going over issues point by point and working things out...but instead I have to listen to one side or the other stand up and start screaming...."SEE! SEE! See what they are doing!!???"

    Then the other side will stand up and scream..."SEE...We can't deal with such people! We are leaving!"

    Thus the first party will reply..." We knew you did not want peace! We will not deal with such %$#@*^!"

    Then as both sides start to walk out of the room...and what I am about to say actually has PHYSICALLY HAPPENED on more than one occasion...I and other team members will have to physically grab these people and force them to sit back down.

    Then I will say..."I am NOT going to end up getting stuck in this S%#@ Hole for 2 months like last time!" "You will stay in this room until the details of the next summit are agreed upon if we have to tie you all to the chairs!"

    Then BOTH sides get angry with us telling me that they will not have terms dictated to them by an American...at which point I will tell them that if I have to shoot each one of them in the leg so they can't walk out I will do so...and then I pull out a weapon.

    That has actually happened and the only thing both sides hate and fear more than each other is us.

    AboveAlpha
     
  22. stretch351c

    stretch351c New Member

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    So what do we do? I'm not trying to be facetious here. Do we pull out completely and pick up the pieces of what's left after? Do we use your suggestion and turn loose a wing of BUFF's? Do we grab the leaders by the scruff of the neck and make them sit down and talk? Also, part of the problem is the political situation in this country. Di Salvo is correct in a way. There is a large portion of the population that don't like this country. Some think we have strayed to far from what the Founders intended, while others think the Founders were dead wrong and want to see us adopt a more European style of government. Most of us here, myself included, only know what is disseminated for public consumption. And that too is colored by political affiliation.
     
  23. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Thank you Sir, it is about time that Israel stood proudly on its feet.
    With the latest oil and gas finds it will be. Your friends i.e. S. Arabia can help the Terrorist... (Fourteen of the 19 Terrorists on 9/11 were Saudi Arabian... )
     
  24. reedak

    reedak Well-Known Member

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    Some years ago, I had already predicted in this forum that the Palestinian/Israeli issue could never never never be resolved. The conflict dates back to Biblical times -- almost four thousand years ago.

    It began when God told Abraham to leave his homeland, Ur Kasdim, and go "to a land that I will show thee." Abraham had such great faith and trust in God that he left his home and community. He was reassured by the divine promise, "I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves" (Genesis 12:2-3).

    How can a 4,000-year-old problem be so easily resolved, especially it links to religious, historic and ethnic emotions on both sides?

    Who cares a damn about the command from an earthly superpower? Both sides care only the Command of the Heavenly Superpower God!

    I offer to retire forever from this forum, i.e. stop posting in this forum permanently, if a really permanent solution is found for the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, proving my prediction totally wrong.

    My friend, that time will never never never come. I'm afraid you will really be SICK TO DEATH one day. Good luck! God bless you!

    P.S. I hope Obama and his government will not be SICK TO DEATH too at the end of the second term.

    The Bible On Jewish Links To The Holy Land
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/biblejew.html
     
  25. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    What is going to be done...or at least that is what I am being told...is that we will start to withhold AID payments usually sent quarterly to either side.

    I am laughing right now as I keep visualizing a few people I know...well a couple of them are retired now...but there are still a few in the game that were...SUCH...a Pain in the Ass...and they always came in with a smug look on their faces that I just wanted to SLAP THE S#!% out of them! LOL!

    Anyway's...I keep visualizing these guy's the moment they open a letter expecting to see a statement detailing MONEY TRANSFERS to their accounts...and as they look at this statement a big ZERO will appear in a column where should be the numbers $1,345,000,350.00!

    They skim money off these transfers and we know this so I have wanted to see such people get cut off for a LONG TIME!

    AboveAlpha
     

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