Three rapes happen every hour in US military

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by AliJ, May 11, 2013.

  1. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Because the military had no sexual assault problem prior to Obama right?
     
  2. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    You have a source for that?
     
  3. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, he is correct.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/u...-assault-men-are-overlooked-victims.html?_r=0

    This is something that those of us "in the know" have known for years, but have not talked about because of the stigma usually associated with it. Do not forget, I have been a counselor in the past, and about half of the victims are men (in a previous post I gave a fairly descriptive example of one such incident).

    Most of the stats are actually not available, because most of the reports are Restricted (as in "nothing reported but that an assault happened"), but about half of them are by men against men. And probably 60% are by civilian perpetrators.

    In my experience, most of the "military rapes" are along the lines of "date rape", normally where one or the other (or both) are intoxicated at the time. The majority of the rest are from anonymous people, so there is no telling if it is military or civilian.

    And do not forget that most of what the media passes off as "military rape statistics" are in reality "military sexual assault statistics", which are not actually rape at all.
     
  4. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    I love that most of the people theorizing about what constitutes rape are accusing Assange for it without second thought.

    On topic i think that this attitude is pretty much expected given that those guys are products of a decadent society .
     
  5. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    OK, let me give some information here about what actually goes into most "sexual assault" and "rape" statistics from the military.

    For one, most of it in the civilian world is pure guesswork. Why? Well, most women (and even more men) will never come forward if they have truly been sexually assaulted. I am not talking about the unwanted groping, but the "hold a knife to your throat - push you to the ground - pull your pants off" assault-rape.

    The military is no different here then the civilian side is. Most such attacks are never reported, either from shame or embarrassment. So all either the Civilian or Military can do is make an "educated guess". In the civilian world, they estimate. In the military world, they work hard to make a "restricted" side, so that hopefully they can get some kind of real data.

    Now I have said this before, let me say it more clearly for those that do not know. In the military, there are two kinds of reports. In a restricted report, the victim goes to an individual in a unit such as I was (a certified SARC representative), clergy, or authorized medical personnel and says they have been raped or assaulted.

    Now if one of us gets the report, we ask if they want this report Restricted, or Unrestricted.

    If it is Restricted, we take them to get medical treatment, and arrange for them to get psychological treatment. We then write up a report telling the chain of command "An individual was sexually assaulted on XXX night", and that is it. No identification is made of the victim or the perp. It does not matter if we know that Corporal Jane was raped by Sergeant Steve, we follow the individual's wishes, and only report that an attack took place.

    Now if this person goes to anybody other then those I listed (sexual assault counselor, medical personnel, or clergy), then it is automatically Unrestricted. Also they can tell one of us if they want their report Restricted or Unrestricted (we have to ask which they wish). If they ask for restricted, that is it. End of game, command is only told it happened.

    If it is unrestricted, well, stand by. Because generally if the individual is in the military, the Holy Wrath of God is about to come down upon them.

    Now I myself fell into this role in kind of an unusual way. I joined the Army rather late (10 years Marine Corps, 14 years civilian). I was at the rank that most were in their late teens-early 20's. So to many I was a kind of a "father figure". Heck, I was older then most of their parents. But a lot of people felt comfortable talking to me because I was more or less the same rank, even though I was decades older. So my unit made use of that, thinking I could help some of those that had been abused. Getting them to come forward without feeling like they had done anything wrong.

    Here is where I tend to get "hazy" in what I can and can not say. In cases where the individual said they wanted to make an "unrestricted report", I can be fairly candid, saying most everything but their name and who attacked them (if known). If they said they wanted it Restricted, I can only hint at generalities. Never really picking out any single incident, only giving a general impression without actually saying anything serious (unless I can validate it with other sources).

    For people in my position, confidentiality is key. And the sad fact is that of all the reports I handled either directly or indirectly (over 20), only a handful were Unrestricted.

    And only Unrestricted reports can be pursued by military justice.

    And I am sure that that is around half of the real number, if not less. Both my late fiancée and wife had been raped prior to my meeting them (one knew her attacker, one did not). But neither of them reported this to law enforcement. So that alone gives me a good idea how many are reported and how many are not.

    And as a final parting message, I encourage everybody to remember this fact. All "military sexual assault" statistics are collected not based upon who the perpetrator is, but upon who the victim is. While every victim of a "military sexual assault" is in the military, that does not mean that every perpetrator in in the military. In general, only about half of them in my experience were actually in the military when it came to actual rapes or attempted rapes. Most of the "garden variety" in appropriate contact was military I will freely admit (unwanted suggestions/innuendo/gropings). But when it comes to actually "pushing the person down and connecting genital A to genital B", at least half were civilians who did it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And who here has said (*)(*)(*)(*) about Assange?

    How about learning the facts before opening your freaking pie hole?
     
  6. CaptainAngryPants

    CaptainAngryPants New Member

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  7. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    Yep , denial is the first stage .
     
  8. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    "Because the military had no sexual assault problem prior to Obama right?"

    Taxcutter says:
    Never was zero, but discipline began breaking down as a result of demoralization caused by counterproductive leadership. The military suicide rate has gone sky-high under Hussein Obama. Soldiering is tough business. Without discipline and morale it becomes intolerable.

    Even Carter didn't let morale slide like Hussein Obama has.
     
  9. CaptainAngryPants

    CaptainAngryPants New Member

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    Idiotic nonsense. There has been no breakdown of morale or discipline, sexual assault has been a problem for a long time.
     
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    I would not say that is happening at all. Morale has taken a dip, I will admit that. Less time training, more equipment breaking, more wasted time doing nothing then actually working on our needed skills. But I have not seen any real breakdown in discipline at all.

    Morale and discipline are very different, and you can have a highly disciplined unit with low morale (check any grunt unit at the end of 3 weeks in the field in the middle of summer, or an Air Defense unit after being non-stop in the field in Arizona for 5 weeks) and you will see what I mean. But morale tends to fall then rebound quickly, discipline takes much longer to fall or rise again.

    To me, trying to blame this on the President is rather foolish. Unless you can find some example of some scumbag going "Hey, our President is a (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*), I think I am going to go rape somebody", then I think you are undoubtedly barking up the wrong tree here. It is no more President Obama's fault then the assaults prior to him were President Bush's fault. Or before him President Clinton, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

    Trust me, morale has fallen. Mostly from boredom, because we can't spend much time doing our job. Instead of going to the field and practicing with our equipment, or maintaining it and practicing in the motor pools, we sit around the barracks painting rocks and doing endless police calls.

    That kills morale, because we feel useless. We joined the military to do something, not sit around doing nothing. Sure, that is nice on occasion, but not for week after week. Imagine a city only sending police out when they have a call come in. There is no money for patrol cars to drive around, so all they do is sit in a ready room waiting for a call to come in. Imagine what morale would be like for that department, feeling useless most of the time and not doing their job.

    The military is no different. Most of us love to train, but when there is no money to do any real training (and half of your equipment does not work because there is no money for replacement parts), then you feel pretty useless.

    But this has nothing to do with sexual assaults.
     
  11. smevins

    smevins New Member

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    3 sexual assaults happen every 6 minutes in the general population. The point here is what?
     
  12. CaptainAngryPants

    CaptainAngryPants New Member

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    Sounds like you're making excuses for your own breakdown of morale. What kind of logic is that? Soldiers are bored so they're bound to rape someone sooner or later? Are you kidding?
     
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    I think you totally missed what I said.

    Low morale does not cause "sexual assaults". There is no cause and effect here at all.

    Tell me, the last time you were depressed and sad and bored, did you just think to yourself "Hey, I think I am going to go and rape somebody! That will make me feel better!"

    No, of course not, no cause and effect here. Low discipline can lead to such an environment, but not low morale (low morale tends to cause other problems, like drug use, excessive drinking and incidents of AWOL however). Low discipline however can lead to a "wild west" type of mindset, where you can do anything you want with no consequences.

    But if anything, I have seen discipline in most units tighten up, because of the need to cull out more and more people because of personnel cuts. During military drawdowns, discipline typically increases because commanders try to find any way they can to cut off those that are not performing to 100%, to make room for others that are.

    If I was to list any single cause for the increase in numbers of reported assaults, it would simply be because more people are coming forward to report it. The military has worked hard over the years to get individuals to come forward. Even creating the Restricted and Unrestricted reporting systems, something that did not exist 10 years ago.

    We are seeing this surge not because of an actual increase in these crimes, but the environment that allows more people who have been assaulted to come forward and report it. One of my classes they talked about how in the civilian side, only around 20% of rapes are ever reported to law enforcement. In the military today, they estimate that around 65% report such incidents. And the majority are restricted.
     
  14. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    The suicide rate started going up when Bush started the Iraq War.
     
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    And most who killed themselves never deployed into a theatre of war. They killed themselves for the same reason most people do: relationship troubles, money troubles, personal issues, and depression. The majority totally unrelated to the war or anything else.

    Why do people always try to put some political meaning into something that has nothing to do with the military or politics at all? The suicide rate is even higher today then it was when President Bush was in office, is that now President Obama's fault?

    I don't think so. The rate now is higher then any time during the Iraq War, and we have been out of there for years.

    Once again, cause and effect. And there is not one here.
     
  16. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    The cause is forcing soldiers into multiple repeated deployments rather than actually doing what we should have done and funded a massive increase in the Army's size with the use of war-time taxation.
     
  17. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    Combat deployments, no matter how many or how long, were not the reason for the notable increase in military suicides, according to a study of current and former U.S. servicemembers from 2001 to 2008.

    Here is a link to the study published by the Journal of the American Medical Association::

    Risk Factors Associated With Suicide in Current and Former US Military Personnel
    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1724276

     
  18. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Let me say this again.

    HOW CAN THAT BE IF THE MAJORITY WHO KILL THEMSELVES OR TRY TO HAVE NEVER DEPLOYED?

    HOW CAN THIS BE, IF DEPLOYMENTS ARE NOW DOWN, YET THE RATE IS STILL RISING?

    Explain me this logically if you please.
     
  19. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Source for each of those claims .
     
  20. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Oh sweet Jesus on a crutch. Are people totally incapable of doing any kind of research anymore?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/07/u...t-related-to-military-suicide-spike.html?_r=0

    Herk already posted this just a few minutes ago. But this has been known for years now.

    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/02/22/report-no-link-between-deployment-suicide-in-military

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704532204575397561114220230

    The correlation spiked in the late 2000's, because at that time a large percentage of the military had been deployed. But since the end of Iraq and most fighting in Afghanistan, this percentage is rapidly dropping as individuals who deployed leave the military and are replaced with people who have never deployed (remember, most military turn over in 4 years or less). US involvement in Iraq ended 2 years ago now, and that was after 3 years of drawdown. Most of those who have deployed to Iraq are already out or getting out in the next 2 years.

    So please, provide a source for your claims now, I have sourced mine.
     
  21. AveMariaGratiaPlena

    AveMariaGratiaPlena New Member

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    I find this to be an incredibly sad statistic. Something obviously has to be done about it.

    That said, I once dated a guy for several years who was in the military. I thought he was an alright guy until one day he came home and raped my sister who was 13 at the time. He ended up going to prison for child molestation and is now a registered sex offender for life.

    I have forgiven the guy but I will never talk to him again. I never suspected him to be a pedophile and neither did any of my family but apparently he was one. I only wish I had known before I started dating him.
     
  22. HerculesUnique

    HerculesUnique Banned

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    I'm late to the party here does this mean it isn't about Bubba Clinton or even Ben rothlesburger?
     
  23. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    Sexual assault has been going on in the military for decades. But, as usual for the delusional right wing - it's all a matter of BLAME OBAMA!
     
  24. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

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    Taxcutter says:
    More like millennia. The fact there is more than a "normal background" level is due to a breakdown of discipline that always starts at the top.
     
  25. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, if you have read what myself and most of us in here have said, we do not blame the administration (this or previous ones) at all. Nor do we blame deployments, or females in uniform, or anything else other then the fact that among every group of people, some are more likely to rape (or use drugs, or steal, or kill themselves) then others. And unless these individuals had been caught at it previously, there is simply no way to keep them out of the military.

    All we can do is our best to catch them once they do it, then persecute them to the fullest extent of the law.
     

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