Various Religious Positions On Abortion

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Fugazi, Apr 15, 2013.

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  1. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Who is lying, show me where I have ever said that human life doesn't start at conception .. you can't, read any reply from me where this subject turns up and you will see I have never disputed that human life starts at conception, so this is irrelevant and when aimed at me personally is nothing but a lie.
     
  2. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Sure it is...it takes just as much faith to believe what you do as what I do. First off you can not prove there is no God. You would have to possess all the knowledge in the universe to do that. And I doubt you have that.

    A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

    “Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

    The court decided the inmate’s First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.
    The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.

    http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/#fX2DTI7mGjJbHiCx.99 http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/

    http://www.religionnews.com/2013/04...y-morning-connection-with-other-nonbelievers/

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    Sure it is...it takes just as much faith to believe what you do as what I do. First off you can not prove there is no God. You would have to possess all the knowledge in the universe to do that. And I doubt you have that.

    A federal court of appeals ruled yesterday Wisconsin prison officials violated an inmate’s rights because they did not treat atheism as a religion.

    “Atheism is [the inmate's] religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being,” the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals said.

    The court decided the inmate’s First Amendment rights were violated because the prison refused to allow him to create a study group for atheists.
    The Supreme Court has said a religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion.

    http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/#fX2DTI7mGjJbHiCx.99 http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/

    http://www.religionnews.com/2013/04/16/atheists-find-a-sunday-morning-connection-with-other-nonbelievers/

     
  3. WhatNow!?

    WhatNow!? New Member

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    LOL! NOW you love the Supreme Court !!! Guess the SC is right with Roe v. Wade...right?
     
  4. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    heavy sigh,
    Please try to pay attention.
    the discussion was around religion and whether or not that is the basis for the argument that life begins at conception, as you can plainly see here the notion that it is a religious beleif solely is nonsense.

    If you don't want to be part of the discussion, don't let he door knob hit you where the good lord split you (on your way out)!

     
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    On the basis of Science the Pro Life position fails since ther is no concensus among scientists on the issue.

    That makes lifers either religious or ignorant.
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Repeating "its a human life" over and over again does not make it so.

    Try coming up with a valid argument for your premise before pretending your premise is true.
     
  7. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    HAHAHAH in that case your assertions fail as well on a scientific basis. It cuts both ways punkin. That would make you either ignorant or worse wouldn't it? :roflol:

    It actually means we beleive our scientists and you beleive yours. logic isn't your strong suit apparently.


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    No logic and basic scientific knowledge make it so.

     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pro Lifers repeat known lies as part of the foundation of their belief system. It is a lie to speak of the zygote as a living human when there is no scientific consensus on the issue.
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What assertions do you refer to ?

    It would be nice if you would state what you are talking about so that folks have a chance to respond. Especially when making accusations of ignorance.

    Making such a general accusation without stating what the accusation is about is a mark of ignorance.
     
  10. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    No the discussion is as per the OP, and that is the various religious positions on abortion, the debate has never been about if life begins at conception (which is actual up for debate as life began a long time before) it has always been about whether that life is actual a living human being, the religious viewpoint is very relevant as the majority of those asserting it is at conception are religiously motivated.
     
  11. WhatNow!?

    WhatNow!? New Member

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    And it is pathetic that courts have to call atheism a "religion" to protect atheists rights which should just be there.


    I am an atheist and do not belong to any religion because:

    I don't make up stuff to make myself feel better and other people feel worse.

    I don't chant incantations in the belief that doing so will change something.

    I take care of myself without begging for some mystical help.

    I don't hate the less fortunate or the desperate or the mentally ill or the elderly.

    I don't try to force others to feel or think the way I do.

    I don't threaten them with horrendous punishments in lakes of fire or burning in some imaginary hell.


    I have no interest in other people's sex lives.


    I have a pretty good knowledge of the history of the world and the humans in it.


    I don't try to convert anyone to atheism....and I certainly don't believe in torturing them or slaughtering them if they don't agree with me.


    I don't put on a show of my beliefs as prideful , arrogant religious people do.


    I don't believe being in a certain building on a certain day makes me a better person.






    "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi
     
  12. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    Oh people know, there is no need for me to rehash your repeatedly posted nonsense.

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    Oh people know, there is no need for me to rehash your repeatedly posted nonsense.

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    Well you are wrong again, not surprising. Read through the thread.

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    Atheism is CLEARLY a religion. But we are getting off ytopic.

     
  13. gabriel1

    gabriel1 New Member

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    a minor point for your own interest: Buddhists believe in rebirth, not reincarnation. there is no everlasting soul to reincarnate.
     
  14. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Ah, I think that was a mistype by me, thanks for pointing it out.
     
  15. WhatNow!?

    WhatNow!? New Member

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    No, I do not belong to any religion...if you feel better calling atheism a religion go right ahead, it changes nothing with me......I will still not belong to any religion for all the very pertinent reasons I already gave
     
  16. Pasithea

    Pasithea Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Again, what makes you assume they are Pagan?
     
  17. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    You can talk until your blue in the face....abortion is legal...and atheism is a religion our courts CALLED IT ONE. Accept and embrace it.It takes faith to believe in something even if the belief is..there is no God. And that I might add is something YOU CAN'T PROVE.

    Yea Christians don't have enough faith it takes to be atheists. LOL

    Love what Phillip E. Johnson said about this. "One who claims to be a skeptic of one set of beliefs is actually a true believer in another set of beliefs."

    If God exists then there is meaning and purpose to your life. If God does not exist then you life really means nothing. No purpose, no right or wrong. As they say your destiny is dust. It takes faith to believe both. And it takes faith to be an atheist. My religion is just not about faith. Facts are key because truth claims are stated. And God gave us science in order to make those truth claims..that can be evaluated both scientifically and historically.
    But see all this means nothing to you...you are not here to learn..but to bash. The truth is this.....faith is required to believe any worldview...and that includes yours, atheism. You should know that it is impossible to know everything....about any topic. You do not have enough information to say..there is no god. The less evidence you have the more faith you need to believe it. So don't feed us the bologna that you don't have or need faith, you do.

    Present me facts and the evidence you have to prove 100% there is no God. And since you know this could you tell me about the very first cause? I do not make up anything. And if you feel bad its because your making yourself feel bad. Do I make you feel bad? Do I ram my faith down your throat? Do I talk about it all the time? Do I make thread after thread about my faith? If anyone talks about God....its you humanists and so called atheists.

    Who says you have to do this? Not all churches do that. I know one church where they do not have music at all. So because a bunch of atheists meeting do not sing, does not mean they don't adhere to the same faith, worldview.

    That is fine...but why do you fault others for doing it? I take care of myself too. I have taken care and raised my children...taken care of my mother and father when they were dying...all while taking care of myself. What is your point? God gives me the free will to do what I want. I ask for prayer and support and blessings along with forgiveness. But I take care of myself...I am responsible for what I say and do? And your point?

    So your saying I hate the less fortunate and the desperate, mentally ill and elderly? How do you know this? Your saying the people who are like this are the people who believe and are commanded by God to love? I'll tell ya what...in the course of my work at CPC...Right to Life....meals on wheels etc....most are people of faith in God who want to make a difference.
    Odd you say this...and you are the one who is pro-death for the unborn....the one who thinks the violence of abortion is ok. SHOW ME THE LOVE?

    How do I force you to believe in God? How do I force you to do anything? You are here debating abortion....SHARING YOUR VIEWS...are you not trying to convince people that abortion should be legal? I have the right to share my views and to try to convince others that what I believe is right. I have that right...the Constitution gives me that right. If you don't want to hear...then don't put me on ignore....put those that threaten your worldview on ignore. But don't blame us for something we don't do.

    Well I don't threaten anyone. God states the truth...I share it. It is God they should be afraid of not me. If its imaginary and you really believe that...why does it bother you so much. Do you know for a fact..what happens after death? Again give me proof.

    Sure you do....when you debate same sex marriage...you debate anything that has to do with sex. I could care less if people have sex in our out of marriage. I do care if they start a life and then kill it.

    So? I think I also could somewhat say the same. And your point? There is truth....

    You don't? Sure ya do, all the time...when you make digs and pot shots against beleivers. LOL

    Where on earth do Christians do what you claim here? Do you know how many people were killed in the Salem Witch trials? Go look it up....
    This is something atheists always bring up to throw at Christians. How many died? A mass Christian slaughter? hardly....

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/ASAL_DE.HTM

    Where today are Christians doing this? America is secular...not happening here...if anything Christians are the ones abused. Where is it happening?


    Oh...I get it...so your not arrogant or prideful. Well you have just painted yourself as a near perfect person. Wow. So atheists dont' have pride...and are not arrogant.
    Amazing..wow. Well hey, congrats....I think however you certainly have displayed this....

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conceited


    WEll of course not...your perfect remember. LOL But you certainly love living on your computer...right? LOL That obviously is your worship room...where you let it all hang out.
     
  18. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

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    Our goverment calls it a religion....atheism is a religion...it is faith based and people meet in groups to propagate the faith. I addressed you hate list.
     
  19. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have nothing but unsupported assertions.
     
  20. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    You know very well that is a lie.

    I have supported my assertion that a fetus is a human being successfully
    I have supporterd my assertion that an abortion is a homicide successfully
    I have supporterd the fact that a Federal law recognizes fetuses as human beings regardless of stage of development succesfully
    I have supported the fact that Abortion rates increased dramatically after legalization successfully!

    So you are lying to the wrong guy.

     
  21. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your entire argument hinges on the UVVA Act, but unfortunately for you, that proves nothing. Even if a law defines a fetus as a person or human being, it is still nothing more than a juridical person, not a natural person with rights.

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+m...ling+Roe+and+fetal+homicide+laws.-a0250470479
     
  22. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    You should really read before popping off nonsense.
    That is only one peice of my support, and you are incorrect with your interpretation of the UVVA.
    A person who is protected against violence by such an act has to be a human person.

     
  23. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Proof?
     
  24. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    Self evident, no need.

     
  25. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Right, it's self evident to say a person is a person, as you did.
     
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