Unions claim right to work law is slavery

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by jackdog, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Grokmaster

    Grokmaster Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    55,099
    Likes Received:
    13,310
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Where does this "average person" live? Living expenses vary GREATLY across our nation. Around here,(cnetral Indiana), about $400 per week , take home would do it, for a SINGLE PERSON, not sharing expenses.
     
  2. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    16,451
    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    0
    FFS there is nothing arbitrary about the notion of a living wage.

    it is a well known concept and is basically a wage level which allows the worker to pay for adequate shelter, food and all the things considered the necessities of life in a given society. It should be enough to ensure that no more than 30% is spent on housing costs (and this is reflected in borrowing levels allowed by reputable financial institutions). It should be sufficient for workers to earn enough income for what is considered by the society in general to be a reasonable standard of living.
     
  3. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    16,451
    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    0
    OK, so where you are, you think $10 per hour is reasonable for a single person.

    so you would be happy with $10 per hour, and if the union were to negotiate for higher wages, you would refuse to accept any wage incraese which came about through those negotiations, because you don't need it, or want it. :)
     
  4. Zosiasmom

    Zosiasmom New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    18,517
    Likes Received:
    250
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So $10 an hour for a single person, not married, no kids. Okay, just wanted to know what you thought was a living and decent wage that you would support all Americans making at least that.
     
  5. Zosiasmom

    Zosiasmom New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    18,517
    Likes Received:
    250
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Woops, I forgot taxes and social security...you were saying take home. So $13 an hour? (Redid my calc to be fair)
     
  6. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    16,451
    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    0
    good point - he did say take home ...

    lols here that would be regarded as poverty, but that may relate to cost of living.

    a basic one bedroom apartment here would be approx 1200 per month.

    be interesting to compare food prices as well - I think these are lower in the US, which is probably why our minimum wage is above Grokky's reasonable wage.
     
  7. hiimjered

    hiimjered Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    7,924
    Likes Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    That is actually the definition of poverty line. Do you think that the most basic worker should only earn a poverty level of income?
     
  8. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    40,617
    Likes Received:
    5,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please point out the provision in any right to work law that prohibits workers from forming a union or otherwise engaging in voluntary collective action.
     
  9. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    16,451
    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    0
    interesting .... and true, I guess looking at the poverty line I carry an assumption thatthere may be lower expectations of what is considered reasobable in terms of the items other than housing. the poverty line income should be sufficient to provide a basic nutritious diet, whereas the "living wage" might include a few minor luxuries I guess.

    this wiki article talks about both.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage
     
  10. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    40,617
    Likes Received:
    5,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A "living wage", much like the minimum wage, will just increase unemployment. What's more, this rise in unemployment will disproportionately impact low-skilled laborers. That's basic economics and is supported by a mountain of empirical research.
     
  11. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    16,451
    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'd like to see the real research on that.

    it hasn't been borne out in reality in countries where "a living wage" is considered important.

    for example, our minimum wage is above $13 per hour, but we have lower unemployment than you do. Finland also has pretty good wage laws, and they have lower unemployment as well.
     
  12. Slyhunter

    Slyhunter New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    9,345
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No a living wage would include rent, electric, water, trash. I would also include phone, car payment, car insurance; Things you need in order to work in most places. It wouldn't include crack because thats not considered something NORMAL people need. Understand the difference between NEED and WANT.
     
  13. Slyhunter

    Slyhunter New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    9,345
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You would pay one a living wage and two a living wage plus extra for luxuries to pay for his greater skill set and value.
     
  14. Slyhunter

    Slyhunter New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2010
    Messages:
    9,345
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What good is it to have a job when you can't afford to pay rent and have to sleep in the streets, shower at truck stops in order to keep up your appearance to keep that job. A job that won't pay enough to provide a place to (*)(*)(*)(*), shower, and shave, shouldn't exist and the employer should raise his rates until he can afford to pay the living wage or go out of business.
     
  15. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    24,711
    Likes Received:
    3,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There are no such thing as "union bosses"; Union leadership would be a more appropriate description.
     
  16. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    18,921
    Likes Received:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes. Because that is what the market forces demand.

    No (*)(*)(*)(*)ing fast food worker should be living the same quality of life as his manager.
     
  17. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    Messages:
    24,711
    Likes Received:
    3,547
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Remember that the next time a poverty level worker in a hamburger joint is preparing your food and hasn't washed his hands after using the bathroom; you get what you pay for in this country.
     
    Zosiasmom and (deleted member) like this.
  18. hiimjered

    hiimjered Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    7,924
    Likes Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    What makes you think that giving that same poor-hygiene slob an extra $50 a week will make him suddenly clean up his behavior and start washing his hands?
     
    Jarlaxle and (deleted member) like this.
  19. hiimjered

    hiimjered Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    7,924
    Likes Received:
    143
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Those are synonyms. One is just a more politically correct name for the other.
     
  20. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2010
    Messages:
    18,921
    Likes Received:
    446
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I can see you are going to go reeaal far in the world. You are a spoiled brat with some kind of sick entitlement complex and obviously afraid to do what it takes to succeed in a globalized economy.

    As young as you are, you are a dinosaur. Enjoy extinction.
     
  21. Zosiasmom

    Zosiasmom New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    18,517
    Likes Received:
    250
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Who said that they should? I think most people are saying that they should at least make enough so they don't have to live off their parents.
     
  22. webrockk

    webrockk Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Messages:
    25,361
    Likes Received:
    9,081
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Collectivist and union [redundant] mentality revolves around emotional and actual extortion....
    a "protection racket", if you will...


    If you don't give to government to give to the poor...
    the poor will commit crime and violence against you.

    If you don't give to government to fund contraceptives and abortions...
    there will be more poor...
    who, if you don't give to government to feed and house, will commit crime and violence against you.

    If you don't give to government to fund UHC, you will go bankrupt and become poor, and millions of poor will die in the street....
    but they will commit crime and violence against you before they perish.

    If you don't give to government to fund premium foods, children will become fat and stupid and ultimately poor...
    who, if you don't give to government to give premium foods and housing, will commit crime and violence against you.

    If you don't comply with union demands, you will be subject to shut downs, violence and vandalism and become poor... rinse/repeat

    If you don't pay "a living wage", the working poor will tamper with customers food, sabotaging your business and cause you to become poor...rinse/repeat.

    If you don't give to government to support unions, you will be enslaved to evil capitalists and be poor...rinse/repeat.

    If you don't give to unions to support government, you will be enslaved to evil capitalists and be poor...rinse/repeat.

    If you don't....
    If you don't....
    If you don't....

    The one thing the emotional and actual extortionists never. ever. suggest...
    is that if you do graduate from school, if you do avoid parenthood when you can't afford to feed yourself, if you do avoid laziness, drugs, alcohol, gangs and crime....

    if you do live responsibly...

    you...and society as a whole....are far less susceptible to needing collectivist union mafia "protection"...
    or alms from their 'benevolent' big government central planners....which ultimately shrinks the "need" and authority of both.

    and we simply can't have that.
     
  23. Frogger

    Frogger Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 5, 2009
    Messages:
    9,394
    Likes Received:
    112
    Trophy Points:
    63
    So, paying union dues and being forced to work alongside someone who does not pay union dues yet earns the same salary is slavery. I guess the union's contention is that their money, ie union dues, is being used to benefit someone else without their express permission. I wonder if these union people feel that my being forced to give money I earned to the government without my expressed permission so that it can be given to someone else who has not earned it and thereby benefit them at my expense is also a form of slavery.
     
  24. jackdog

    jackdog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    19,691
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    83
    told this story to friend of mine who is a senior corporate attorney. His theory is some hack lawyer convinced the union that this was a good idea and to give him a hundred thousand or so. His opinion is it will be tossed out of court as soon as the judge hearing it stops laughing and recovers his breath
     
  25. Taxcutter

    Taxcutter New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    20,847
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Iowa today is like the antebellum South? Who knew?

    Clearly the meme likening right-to-work is a flat-out lie. Not only that it is a corrosion of the language and the culture that acts to lessen the horror of real slavery.
     

Share This Page