Planned Parenthood is THE Abortion Industry in the US

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by MisLed, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why do you think all women seeking abortion had unprotected sex? Fully half of all women seeking abortion had used birth control. Government isn't encouraging anything, they are staying out of it. I know you want abortion criminalized, it makes you FEEL GOOD to know the law says what YOU think. Regardless of the effects of the laws.

    Criminalized abortion won't make abortion harder to find, women will have to travel. Women who feel forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy will RARELY put the baby up for adoption, that is just not an option for most women. The stigma of unmarried motherhood has all but disappeared, so those forced to bear babies will keep them, likely to the detriment of the child. The only accomplishment of criminalizing abortion will be to make it more dangerous for women, I know you don't care now, but when it's your daughter, your granddaughter, your niece, or your sister, you may sing a different tune, and remember 43% of all women will have an abortion during their reproductive years.
     
  2. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I've never done that, but I would sign up for the Jane Collective in an instant if it came to that.
    LOL, you don't want to make rules, you just want to dictate what rules the state makes!! It isn't a decision for the state to make, it's an individual decision.



    For the umteenth time, when you pay your taxes, it's not YOUR tax dollars ANYMORE. Do you think you can keep YOUR children ignorant about abortion and birth control, then they won't have sex because of fear of pregnancy? Good luck, that hasn't happened in centuries, but maybe you'll be the first.
     
  3. Locke9-05

    Locke9-05 Well-Known Member

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    Nice statistic, but I see no link supporting that statistic. Even so, if they didn't want to conceive, there's only one way to ensure that, regardless of how "ridiculous" many pro-choice advocates claim it to be. It's actually not ridiculous, it's pure logic.
    Please don't deign to tell me why my position is what it is or what makes me "feel good" as if you know it for a fact. You simply don't know me and really have no right to do so. As for your argument in general about my morality being legislated, it's really no different from your morality being legislated. At the end of the day, someone's morality is going to be legislated. Right now, it's yours, and I would venture to guess that it might possibly make you feel good to know the law says what you think, regardless of the effects of the laws.
    Criminalized abortion will make it as hard to find an abortion as it is hard to find any other illegal market substance, service or product. I've already made this clear, yet you continue to persist as if I'm arguing a different point. How can your position claim to know for a fact that all "women who feel forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy will RARELY put the baby up for adoption--that is just not an option for most women?" How can your position possibly claim to know that? Criminalizing abortion will not make abortion dangerous, it will simply eliminate convenient medically performed abortion. So some women might choose to go for illegally performed dangerous abortion, but the law isn't responsible for that. Women who choose to terminate their unborn children are. As for whether or not I would be "singing a different tune if it was my daughter or grand daughter," that's ad hominem and irrelevant and does not merit a response.
    How can I remember a statistic I've only just read, especially when there's no backing for it present? Even if that is true, it's irrelevant. The number of people who do something has absolutely no bearing on whether something should be legal or not.
     
  4. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    In my opinion, Planned Parenthood being an "abortion factory" is a form of special pleading.
     
  5. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then don't use the statement that women "don't use protection."
    http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html

    In fact, half of all women getting abortions report that contraception was used during the month they became pregnant



    Pro-choice allows people to choose their morals. Pro-life inflicts one standard upon everyone.

    I can know that women will rarely put up a baby for adoption because that is the trend now. Women keep their babies. Those responsible for criminalizing abortion are responsible for causing women's deaths because they KNOW that desperate women will make that choice regardless, knowing this and criminalizing abortion anyway makes the lobbyists responsible.

    We should not have laws on the books that merely perform lip service, if a law isn't effective or achieving its purpose, it should be eliminated or replaced. Furthermore, we could not afford to imprison all the women who will have illegal abortions IF YOU WERE RIGHT and we could catch and convict them.

    http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html
    Likelihood of abortion:
    An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old
     
  6. Locke9-05

    Locke9-05 Well-Known Member

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    Please quote a post of mine in which I used the statement "women don't use protection." I generally speak about "women WHO don't use protection," but I have never made the absolute statement "women don't use protection."
    Pro choice allows women to play God with human life. Pro-life is exactly as it says--pro-life. We value innocent human life. The pro-life side needs no justification for its values. We are trying to preserve life. Pro-choice values emphasize the importance of being able to make a choice which destroys it. It has no justification.
    Oh so you know that because "that is the trend now?" Well forgive me if I don't believe that argument of yours. It has no basis of support.
    That's like blaming suicide on anyone who might have slightly "contributed" to a depressed individual's pain--even accidentally. It's no one's fault but their own. If you are truly "pro-choice" as the term is, you should recognize individual choice and the responsibility that comes with it.
    This is nothing but your opinion. We already have laws in place that are exactly like that, and your argument calls for the overhaul of the entire justice system just because you don't agree with it. That's kind of similar to the claim that pro-life advocates are attempting to "legislate their morality." Your arguments are basically advocating the same thing, just a different morality.
    Who says we necessarily imprison them? Maybe their carrying to term is enforced, the child placed into the state's care, and then the offender fined heavily. Again, we would only be able to catch some of them, law enforcement does not prevent crime, but we would be able to catch some women making back alley deals and illegal transactions via undercover police work. And if heavy fines were put in place, not only would we not be paying for offenders' imprisonment, the system would probably profit in the long run, especially considering that 43 percent statistic. Fines are just as effective if not more so than imprisonment.
     
  7. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This statement implies that women seeking abortion did not use protection.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/abort...od-abortion-industry-us-8.html#post1060917918
    If women are going to engage in unprotected sex



    Choice preserves freedom of conscience. Choice gives women the control they need to plan their lives. That's adequate justification.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...5nAfpU&sig=AHIEtbQpddyqF6Qa0OVSXtITgS7B1yp55A


    Adoption is frequently advocated as a good solution for unwanted pregnancy, particularly by the
    anti-abortion movement. Abortion clinics and the pro-choice movement support adoption as a
    possible option for women, and they provide information and referrals on adoption to those
    considering it. However, very few women facing an unintended pregnancy actually choose to
    give up their baby for adoption
    . Most will choose to keep the baby themselves or terminate the
    pregnancy. This paper explains why




    When YOU KNOW you are contributing to a certain decision, you bear some responsibility.

    You know the old saying, "You can't get blood out of a turnip"? Most women choosing abortion do so for financial reasons, so most are simply not going to be able to pay fines.
     
  8. Locke9-05

    Locke9-05 Well-Known Member

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    Way to take that quote very conveniently out of context. The whole quote was: "If women are going to engage in unprotected sex, then refuse to be held accountable for their actions, and attempt to "terminate" the result..." The "ifs" in that statement are conditional to women who engage in unprotected sex. Granted, I don't believe women should be getting abortions even if they use protection during sexual activity, but in that statement, I was clearly referring to those women who engage in unprotected sex.
    That's adequate justification for the systematic killing of human life? Perhaps that's the case according to your moral compass.


    So if most will choose to either keep the baby themselves or terminate the pregnancy, then the viable option in the hypothetical that abortion were made legal would be for her to keep the baby.
    No you really are not. Contributing factors are not deciding factors. The decision of such an act falls on the individual and the individual alone. Let me ask you a question. Would you say that present day school students who harass and/or bully their peers are responsible for school shootings that may or may not result?
    Another unsupported assertion. How droll. How are they able to pay for an abortion procedure if they aren't in a very good financial situation.
     
  9. Locke9-05

    Locke9-05 Well-Known Member

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    Correction:

    The red "legal" should have been "illegal." I think most who were following along with the debate know what I meant there, but I wanted to clarify nonetheless.
     
  10. Whaler17

    Whaler17 Well-Known Member

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    Not only that, but Guttmacher shows in their data that legalizing abortion dramatically increased the number of abortions commiitted
     

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