Palestinians and the Greatest Political Scam of Modern Times

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by HBendor, Feb 19, 2012.

  1. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Your statistics was for 1945, the Jewish land ownership increased by several percentage points by 1948.


    I did not skip the fact, I addressed it repeatedly. No one on the planet gives a flying f&ck what an obscure British publication recognizes. I just can't understand how many times and in how many ways I have to tell you this.

    My producer Azamat (see our picture together below) recognized the Negev to belong to the Martians. Does it bother you? Moreover even if the entire British government recognized that (and they did not either officially or unofficially) they had no right, authority or jurisdiction to assign land that was unassigned. It was the UN's prerogative and jurisdiction, they regarded the land unassigned, without an owner and by and large vacant and gave it to Israel.

    Me (on the left) and my producer Azamat who thinks the Negev belonged to the Martians
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

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    HAHAHA! You completely ignored everything I typed! My reply had 1,153 words, but you decided knit-pick and reply selectively to 23 words... If you had actually read what I wrote, the United Nations came out with a report in 1947 in which they state that 85% of the land belonged to Arabs.

    Here's is what I said if you "missed" it or something:

    It would be important for me to mention that the Negev was never surveyed by either the Ottoman Government or the British Mandatory. Hence there are no reliable records of land classification or registers of ownership except in and around the town of Beersheba.

    As the document states: “The Negev has been inhabited from time immemorial by Bedouin tribes of Palestine who cultivated what areas they were able to depending on the amount of rainfall in a given year. Furthermore, it should not be forgotten that the Arab practices have been to rotate cultivation, that is, lands cultivated one year are left fallow for one or two subsequent years because of fertilizer and sufficient rainfall. Therefore, when it is estimated that the ‘cultivable’ lands of the Negev are only 2,000,000 dunums, it actually means that the cultivated lands in any or one year are in the neighborhood of that figure, and that the total cultivable lands of the region are at least twice the area cultivated in any one year.
    As regards to the ‘uncultivable’ lands of the Negev, here also the rights of the Bedouin tribes should not be ignored. Neither the Ottoman Government nor the British Mandatory ever interfered with these rights over the whole territory. The whole of these lands are traditionally recognized to belong to the Bedouin tribes. The fact that the Palestine Government did not include these lands under ‘Public’ but showed them separately and admitted in its memorandum to the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry that “it is not safe to assume that all the empty lands south of Beersheba or East of Hebron are dead land” is proof that the Government recognized Arab rights and interests in these lands. In the circumstances, it is wrong to presume that the figure of 10,573,110 dunums appearing in the Village Statistics under the separate column of uncultivated Land is government-owned.”

    The fact that this land belonged to the Bedouins was recognized. For example, in a report by the General Assembly stated “The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land.” http://tinyurl.com/6ms9vn5

    Whoever said 45?
    Although, you continue to skip the fact that the British Publication recognized this: They never had any survey in the Negev by either the Ottomans or British, except in around the town of Beersheba. Hence, they recognized the land as unassigned - and not state land - because they did never took survey to find out whose land it was. The fact is that over 100,000 Bedouins lived in the Negev at the time. The British Publication recognized the Negev to belong to Arabs tribes.

    This is why it would be some 88% of the land. This is also why in a United Nations report in 1947 they recognized the Arabs in ownership of a very similar amount of land - 85% - http://tinyurl.com/6ms9vn5

    The The CCP Refugee Office also estimated that although only a little more than a quarter was considered cultivable, more than 80 percent of Israel's total area, represented land abandoned by the Arab refugees. About three-quarters of the former Arab land was sub-marginal land or semi-desert in the Negev.

    Not the same land, they lost the entire coastal region in which currently about 78% or more of Israel's population resides. Plus there was an even amount of Arabs living in the designated Jewish state when the plan was presented. For example, the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine’s resolution, states that "the Jews will have the more economically developed part of the country embracing practically the whole of the citrus-producing area which includes a large number of Arab products."

    That's the problem... It was not uninhabitable. Over 100,000 Bedouins lived in the Negev, and as their document states "from time immemorial." And they also mentioned that "The whole of these lands are traditionally recognized to belong to the Bedouin tribes ... “it is not safe to assume that all the empty lands south of Beersheba or East of Hebron are dead land” The reason they say this is because they never took a survey on this land except around the town of Beersheba. Moreover, look at the above information which substantiates this.

    As the (Mandate records 1937. Penny Maddrell, The Bedouin of the Negev, Minority Rights Group, Report no.81 (1990) p.5) states: "the British Mandate records affirm that 12,600,000 Dunums of Negev land belonged to the Bedouins (Arabs)."
    It wasn't... If you have been reading what I said you would know that the Negev was indeed inhabited by many Arabs. Furthermore, the British publication states "Furthermore, it should not be forgotten that the Arab practices have been to rotate cultivation, that is, lands cultivated one year are left fallow for one or two subsequent years because of fertilizer and sufficient rainfall. Therefore, when it is estimated that the ‘cultivable’ lands of the Negev are only 2,000,000 dunums, it actually means that the cultivated lands in any or one year are in the neighborhood of that figure, and that the total cultivable lands of the region are at least twice the area cultivated in any one year."

    Palestine was to be split up, aside of whether it was just or unjust, legal or illegal, workable or unworkable, had disregarded all political geographical and economical considerations had only one goal in view,: to include in the Jewish State the most fertile parts of Palestine and to give the Jewish State an access to the Red Sea. The Jewish state was even shaped awkwardly consisting of 3 corridors and separated the Arab State and from the international zone of the City of Jerusalem by irregular, imaginary lines which cut tens of the Arab villages in half and separated many other Arab towns and villages from their agricultural lands. This even left the hilly and arid parts of Palestine to form the more awkwardly shaped Arab Palestine. The fertile Huleh basin around Lake Tiberius and fertile Coastal Plains along the Mediterranean, were included in the Jewish state too! Resolution 181 in the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine's resolution, states that "the Jews will have the more economically developed part of the country embracing practically the whole of the citrus-producing area which includes a large number of Arab products." Even with the Negev (a place inhabited at the time by many Arabs) the Israelis would be better off. Since demographic studies show about 78% of Israelis live on 14% of the land - so the better part. The Palestinian state was to be the arid non-fertile mountainous region, when previously they owned a little over 84% of the cultivatable land in Palestine.

    Yes, and the United Nations in their report state that 85% of the land belonged to Arabs: http://tinyurl.com/6ms9vn5

    Plus it wasn't "someone else thought" it was the British Mandatory, Palestine Government at the time.
     
  3. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    That's because all your 10 page essays don't matter. The Negev had no owners, was unassigned and was extremely sparely populated...if Nomads could even be considered 'population'. The UN had the sole jurisdiction to assign that empty land and it assigned a land without a people to a people without a land. And being international law-abiding states you claim arabs are, you should have accepted the ruling even if it was unfavorable. That's what law abiding people and states do.

    You can type 500 pages but they won't change these simple 23 word facts.
     
  4. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

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    I checked for you on word, and it only was 3 pages... wrong again LOL.

    You do realize dodging all my arguments is getting you nowhere. The United Nations report stated that 85% of the land belonged to Arabs.

    I find it funny that when the British call the land "unassigned" it's important to you, but when they also state they recognize this land to belong to the Arab Bedouins - and some non-Bedouin people (they extend on this idea in which I have posted) it doesn't matter to you! You're a real joke.
     
  5. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    There is no argument. The land had no owner, we agreed on that matter, there is nothing to debate...unless you can produce a one page deed on the Negev instead of another 10 page essay on your and some obscure report's personal opinion and convoluted explanation why you think officially unassigned land was yours.
     
  6. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

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    Where is the personal opinion? You said that the UN is the only one who has any authority on this matter.

    Therefore, the United Nations report stated that 85% of the land belonged to Palestinians.

    By the way there is plenty to argue about, but you just consistently ignore it.

    As I already said, the BRITISH called the land unassigned because they never took any survey on the entire Negev, only in the town of Bersheeba.
     
  7. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Do you have deeds for the Negev? **** if you don't. Case closed. And the UN agreed and gave the uninhabited desert to Israel, no thanks to you and your ancestors.
     
  8. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

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    LOL? You haven't even made any case, nonetheless you haven't replied to any of my arguments.

    The Negev was not uninhabited, it had a population well over 100,000 and the United Nations had no right giving away land they did not own.

    Once more, the UN stated in their report that 85% of the land belonged to the Arabs. You have not refuted a single fact in any of your posts, so I'm assuming you're not going to refute anything if we are to continue this discussion.

    Case closed. :p
     
  9. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Indeed it is. The UN assigned a land without a people to a people without a land. It's been 64 years, get it over with and stick your useless and baseless documents, obscure reports and opinions wherever you won't be able to easily find them again. That's for your own sake, or you will waste your life whining about non-existent grievances and 'stolen' land that was not yours in the first place just like several previous generations of your ancestors have.

    PS don't forget to let me know when you find deeds showing that the Negev belonged to the Arabs. Until you do though - it's unassigned.
     
  10. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

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    Ah, so you agree with me.

    Baseless documents? I linked straight from the Untied Nations website... And quoted straight from British publications from the time period. By the way, I hope you remember you were the one to start the conversation on land ownership - not me. I joined in.

    Guess what? You still haven't refuted a single argument of mine. Hence, my case is closed.
     
  11. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    Hey you guys are going to be proud of me. I rounded up a family of Palestinians and put them on an express bus on its way to Mexico City today. I'm doing my part. Everyone should help. If we all work together we can solve the Palestinian problem.
     
    Thunderlips and (deleted member) like this.
  12. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    -you acknowledged that the Arabs owned 48% of Palestinine
    -you acknowledged that the Negev was 'unassigned'
    -you acknowledged that the Negev was sparsely populated (if at all, see below)
    -you acknowledged that there never were and still aren't Arab land deeds claiming the ownership of Negev.
    -you might acknowledge that the UN taking all these facts into consideration gave a land without a people to a people without a land.

    Here is more info for you:

    Nomad: : A member of a people who have no permanent abode and travel from place to place to find fresh pasture for their livestock.

    Population: All the inhabitants of a particular town, area, or country.

    The concepts of 'Nomad' and 'Population' are contradictory and mutually exclusive. The Bedouins could not be considered the 'population' of the Negev, let alone land owners.
     
  13. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

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    I acknowledged that 48% of the land was belonged to Arabs. Then I also acknowledged that the Negev which the British never had a survey on (except for the town of Bersheeba) was recognized as Arab land by the British - through their publicatiosn from the time period. I said the Negev had over 100,000 people living there, doesn't mean anybody has the right to give away that land. There were Arab deeds, although, as I said there was never a survey done in the Negev.

    You stated that the United Nations is the only one that has jurisdiction of whom the land belongs to. The United Nations report state that 85% of the land belonged to Arabs.
     
  14. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

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    They indeed did. But you forget this part:
    the document states: “The Negev has been inhabited from time immemorial by Bedouin tribes of Palestine who cultivated what areas they were able to depending on the amount of rainfall in a given year. Furthermore, it should not be forgotten that the Arab practices have been to rotate cultivation, that is, lands cultivated one year are left fallow for one or two subsequent years because of fertilizer and sufficient rainfall. Therefore, when it is estimated that the ‘cultivable’ lands of the Negev are only 2,000,000 dunums, it actually means that the cultivated lands in any or one year are in the neighborhood of that figure, and that the total cultivable lands of the region are at least twice the area cultivated in any one year.
    As regards to the ‘uncultivable’ lands of the Negev, here also the rights of the Bedouin tribes should not be ignored. Neither the Ottoman Government nor the British Mandatory ever interfered with these rights over the whole territory. The whole of these lands are traditionally recognized to belong to the Bedouin tribes. The fact that the Palestine Government did not include these lands under ‘Public’ but showed them separately and admitted in its memorandum to the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry that “it is not safe to assume that all the empty lands south of Beersheba or East of Hebron are dead land” is proof that the Government recognized Arab rights and interests in these lands. In the circumstances, it is wrong to presume that the figure of 10,573,110 dunums appearing in the Village Statistics under the separate column of uncultivated Land is government-owned.”

    The fact that this land belonged to the Bedouins was recognized. For example, in a report by the General Assembly stated “The Arab population, despite the strenuous efforts of Jews to acquire land in Palestine, at present remains in possession of approximately 85 per cent of the land.” http://tinyurl.com/6ms9vn5



    You do realize the Negev was called “unassigned” by the British publication because they never did a survey on it. That’s why they recognized it as Arab land, and thus didn’t claim it as public lands.

    If not at all? No the Negev had over 100,000 Bedouins in which the British document on Palestine described “lived there from time immemorial.” This may be less than the rest of the country, but it surely can’t be recognized as nobody. Nonetheless, the British document recognized the rights of the Bedouins in the land they called “uncultivated.”



    I never acknowledged this. There probably are. For example, 44 Bedouin villages and towns that were cleansed during 1948. Nonetheless, the British never had any survey on the entirety of the Negev, and only in and around the town of Beersheba. Then Israel cleansed much of the Arabs inhabiting the Negev.


    You said yourself that the United Nations is the only one with jurisdiction on the land ownership. The UNSCOP report stated that 85% of the land belonged to Arabs.
     
  15. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Cut this nonsense Khalil, you are embarrassing yourself. To begin with the publication you are referring to was not British, it was put together by arabs, the Brits considered the land unassigned, you have no deeds to prove otherwise, Nomads by definition don't own land, not in the Sinai, not in the Negev not elsewhere and the UN (not some obscure bogus report but the UNGA and UNSC) did indeed have authority and jurisdiction and they assigned vacant owner-less Negev to the Jews.
     
  16. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

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    Embarrassing myself? Then prove it wrong. Fact is, you can't.
     
  17. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Khalil, the proof of land ownership is a real estate deed, not a report, not a British bureaucrat, not an arabic tradition, not wishful thinking... The proof of ownership is a deed and nothing else, you don't have any deeds for the Negev and thus you are not the owner.
     
  18. Khalil

    Khalil New Member

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    The United Nations statistics say otherwise. You're yet to refute anything I have said.
     
  19. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    Well said! (Gillos) You must remember that the usual suspects believe the propaganda they are infused with. Most of them self infuse as well! My propaganda comes from God. Its simply unreal how far these people will go ! When I first began posting in the political section (I usually promoted the ministry and spoke about Christian vs atheist and other Christian concerns) I remember engaging a Usual suspect that was defending Al Qaeda. I could not believe that none of the conservative minded members were challenging his obviously fabricated claims and un-substantiated vision of historical events!

    Anyway now that is the status quo day to day op of the usual suspects, especially the more leftist rabid leaning types. So now I and my brothers are fighting a war on at least two fronts. I urge all Christians and conservative minded ie religious minded or metaphysical paradigmed’ members to defend any Christian that you see is being attacked by a group of the usual suspects. Last remark and its more on topic. The figures and claims of the usual suspects and even those that debate them should have a new rule that demands hear say and propaganda be substantiated by at least two independent sources.

    reva
     
  20. The Judge

    The Judge New Member Past Donor

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    Religion and politics is a messy combination, based more on biases and conspiracy theories, than facts, history, logic and common sense.
     
  21. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    No Khalil, your plagiarized cut and pastes prove nothing. They are vague rambling and off topic in many cases. Borat has surgically destroyed your claims by citing SPECIFIC reasons that kick, more like cut the legs out from under your arguments. If you do not see that its because you DON’T WANT TO SEE THE TRUTH.

    BTW, I am writing a thread to ask mods to force everyone (including myself who has the same problem as you ie too long posts) for infractions to be handed our if a long cut and paste is mostly not specifically addressing the rebuttal of a member. The UN is a non entity really, in the big picture. As much as I detest war, its the true shaper of reality. War and cultural influence. The USA/Israel has both. I mean you can be in bumfreak China and but a coke (USA) or a pair if (USA) levis! How much more proof do you need to show that we have won the cultural war (which is nearly as important to radical Muslims than the shooting war!


    reva
     
  22. The Judge

    The Judge New Member Past Donor

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    If so, then, why does the UN argue that the native people lived in their homeland? The natives lived in their villages before the creation of Israel:

    Many remain in unrecognized villages in the hope of retaining their traditions and customs; these are rural villages, some of which pre-date Israel
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negev_Bedouin


    Racism, hatred, anti-Semitism.... That's so Israel!
     
  23. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    For once we agree, if only a little! One of the largest problems is that the atheists and agnostics don’t believe. Yes I hear we should leave politics and relgion in separate categories and never combine them. Impossible! More than three quarters of the people that the atheist is trying to tell that to is religious ie worships a supernatural deity or that believes in metaphysical vs. positive* paradigm (model of reality). A Positive based paradigm is usually someone that says if I cant touch feel or taste it its not real, and that self, science and the state are his/her main go to authorities to describe reality. A Metaphysicalist is usually a spiritual person that believes there is more to life than what our senses and science or the state tells us. For example a Christian Metaphysicalist will say that our senses are ok but we know that an infinite intelligence exists while acknowledging the positive paradigm we have natural god given rights. We believe there is a plan outlined by the bible and God. God is our authority and we define our reality by God.

    So there is bound to be a problem when Christian Zionists and Israeli non secular Jews claim original ownership to Isreal via the bible and religious concerns. (over 70% of the USA’s population and about 60% world wide resulting in over two billion! Not counting the Islamic people, when they and other religions are factored in I think the number is over four billion (but it’s a guess based on year old source).

    I could go on but the thread is too long already! I will say I do not agree that based more on biases and conspiracy theories, than facts, history, logic and common sense. If the worlds governments would follow the teachings of Jesus we would not be in this mess. it’s the atheistic paradigm and terrorists that are causing the horrific problems we have today. Christian teachings promote love and peace. Christian teachings (ie the new testament) are bastions of logic and common sense. The sooner we realize that and stop trying to kill one another the sooner our species can fulfill their original destiny, ie seeding the stars from where they came with peace love and the ministry of Jesus Christ.

    Reva
     
  24. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    EDIT AND CORRECTION @ 1:33 am, Edits in color for clarity~

    The native people you speak of were not Arab. There were more Jewish people in the land that we call Israel/Palestine than Arab. Palestine was a name given to a geographical area EDIT: by the Romans and was destroyed around 70CE if memory serves me correctly. EDIT; the reason 70CE was sticking in my head was that it was the date that the Romans invaded and ostracized the Jewish people dispersing them (only to return later as per prophesy). I will check it and attempt to correct it in the stupid 20 min time limit if its incorrect. (Palestine hasn't been a nation, and thus never been a people) I have been saying that since day one! The SCP are really simple Arabs.

    supplemental information, I AM REVEREND GREG (REAL NAME) AND I APPROVE OF THIS SUPPLEMENT! Ah yes I surely do ! ; However, there is a preliminary historical fact that must be established now. There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started). Even the so-called leader of the "Palestinian" people, Yasser Arafat, is EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!'

    reva
     
  25. The Judge

    The Judge New Member Past Donor

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    Such racist hatred.... That's so Israel! The natives of Israel are some Jews and Palestinians.

    Such racist hatred.... That's so Israel! Your claim is incorrect in 1947.

    http://mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

    Such racist hatred.... That's so Israel! Actually, the nation of Palestine is recognized and accepted by the global majority.

    As of 18 January 2012, 129 (66.8%) of the 193 member states of the United Nations have recognised the State of Palestine.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine
     

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