Positive effects of Global Warming?

Discussion in 'Science' started by Sadistic-Savior, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. MannieD

    MannieD New Member

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    Here is a record of the Holocene;
    [​IMG]

    See how stable the Holocene is. Even the LIA is a relatively small blip. So the LIA does not really qualify as an extreme event.
    However, a continuation of the current warming will take us, in a relatively short time, beyond the warmest of the holocene. Som scientists believe we are already warmer than at any time in the last 10,000 years. And look how steep the line is at the right. That sudden change is what the climatologists are labeling and extreme warming. There has been no such sudden change in temperature in all the Holocene.
     
  2. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I hope you realize the limitations of the proxy data used to reconstruct the Holocene temperatures.

    Here is a more recent paper.

    http://www.clim-past.net/6/591/2010/cp-6-591-2010.pdf
     
  3. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Where specifically does it conflict with the source Mannie posted?
     
  4. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Read the paper.
     
  5. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I did - I could not see conflict - some validation, some discussion of current limitation, which we already knew but no conflict
     
  6. MannieD

    MannieD New Member

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    "A large majority of the here investigated temperature reconstructions indicate that temperatures were warmer at the mid-Holocene (6000 BP±500 yrs) compared to the preindustrial period (1500AD±500 yrs), both in summer, winter and the annual mean."

    Agrees with my graph. Perhaps you would like to point out any discrepancy. "Here is a recent paper" is not really an argument against what I posted.
    Does the paper claim that the Holocene was not stable (my point)?
    Does the paper claim that the Holocene was warmer than 2004 (also my point)? If the paper concludes none of these then the paper is not really relevant to my post.
     
  7. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You need to understand the problems with proxy data as outlined in the paper.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  8. Gaar

    Gaar New Member

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    I am saying that there have been many "sudden changes" in the climate of Earth, and plants and animals either adapted or died.

    Just as we will if we don't find a way to survive these NATURAL CHANGES!!!!

    Again, I believe we need to use these resources to find ways to adapt and quit trying to think we can "change" the Natural course of things...

    Without the increased CO2 we wouldn't be having the amount of vegetation growth we currently have, and without that people will starve!!!!

    But I guess some believe starvation beats having to adapt to a Tropical Climate.
     
  9. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

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    really?



    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/dec/20/climate-change-killing-trees-sahel

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-de...2011/aug/08/famine-east-africa-climate-change

    https://www2.ucar.edu/atmosnews/new...rought-may-threaten-much-globe-within-decades
     
  10. Gaar

    Gaar New Member

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    http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/31/global-warming-and-starvation/


    However, it bears noting that claims of doomsday climate scenarios involving famines, flooding and extreme weather have not borne out, and average global temperature increases have thus far been associated with increasing worldwide food resources and vegetation productivity.

    For example, between the mid-1970s and late 1990s, the average global surface temperature (as calculated by NASA) increased by 0.9ºF, and the world’s population increased by 45%. Yet, during this same period, apparent food consumption per person increased by 15% worldwide and by 25% in developing countries. In other words, actual experience has been the exact opposite of what global warming (and overpopulation) campaigners are predicting.

    Likewise, a 2003 paper in the journal Science found that worldwide vegetation productivity increased by 6.2% between 1982 and 1999. This “somewhat surprising result,” as it was described in the journal BioScience, is credited to “higher temperatures, longer temperate growing seasons, more rainfall in some previously water-limited areas,” and more sunlight. This map shows these productivity increases, which are nearly global in scope.


    Should global warming prove to be a non-problem, governments will lose a major justification for prying more tax money from the people. Obama administration documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act revealingly describe “emissions allowances under a cap and trade system” as “valuable assets” that are “analogous to revenue under an equivalent tax policy.” As these documents optimistically note, this “could generate federal receipts” ranging from $100 to $300 billion every year.

    Perhaps this potentially perpetual source of taxpayer money explains why the same politicians who have always called for more taxes, more wealth redistribution and more pork-barrel spending are also insistent that global warming is a crisis.

    James D. Agresti is the president of Just Facts, a nonprofit institute dedicated to researching and publishing verifiable facts about public policy issues.

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/08/31/global-warming-and-starvation/#ixzz1omDh84Hf
     
  11. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

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    While warming may have been one of several factors increasing food production earlier:



    In 2011:
    in 2010:
    In 2009:
    in 2007 – 2008:
    the impacts are mixed, and anyone who has a passing understanding of the factors which influence agricultural production would know that while there are significant gains in some regions, these will be offset by losses in others:

    http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/365/1554/2973.full

    please note, I am not stating that climate change is the only driver to increasing food insecurity. There are numerous factors, including increasing global population, dietary changes in emerging nations and use of arable land to produce biofuels, as well as arrange of other factors – but additional stresses that will impact on food production are something that needs to be discussed.

    ag scientists have been saying for years that research into drought resistant crops is one of the most important areas for the future – and they recognise that climate change is a major factor that they will need to be considering in the future.
     
  12. Windigo

    Windigo Banned

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    All I see is a (*)(*)(*)(*)load of reconstructions that aren't in agreement so they aggregate to 0. All you graph proves is that Proxy reconstructions are a crock of (*)(*)(*)(*)!!!!
     
  13. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Nice to say - have you got any proof that the central line is not in agreement with the proxy data? Or are you challenging all proxy data as useless?w
     
  14. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which proxy data. You did read the problem with this temperature proxy data didn't you? Do you understand it?
     
  15. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    A) when you quote someone else make sure that it stands out that it is a quote and either use the quote icon to put a quote around it or change the font/colour of the piece

    b) Don;t confuse bad journalism with good science

    This is bad journalism

    You know it is bad journalism when he A) does not cite the science articles it is supposedly referencing and what links there are are to right wing blogs

    and b) is an OPINION piece

    Now Cass has done her usual masterly work of giving you a lot of more valid sources that show the opposite
     
  16. MannieD

    MannieD New Member

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    The graph was presented as to show how stable the climate was during the Holocene. I do not care if you accept the graph. But the fact remains, contrary to Gaar's opinion, the stable climate of the Holocene was one factor that allowed animals, including humans, and plants to flourish.
     
  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To a certain extent, animals flourished during the glacial period but limited to the narrow band of the equatorial regions. They moved north as glaciers retreated and more arable land became available. Same now as it warms. Good for life, bad for gloom and doomers.
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    NOT good for life!! We just came out of a record 10 year drought to be hit with record floods for the last 3 years and soon we will swing back into drought conditions

    Try growing food crops in that!!
     
  19. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gee a record 10 year drought with no warming. How does that happen? Ever heard of weather?
     
  20. Windigo

    Windigo Banned

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    From what I see the big bold black line is just the aggregate of the various proxy reconstructions. All you have shown is that proxy reconstructions produce random bull(*)(*)(*)(*). The aggregate is 0 because they aren't accurate at all. They are essentially random red noise.

    Its kind of like religion. They cant all be right nor can the aggregate.
     
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Now we are getting weather and climate mixed up again

    Yes we have heard of weather and it is not just us - insurance companies are having to pay out record amounts

    This is what the IMF says
    [​IMG]]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And we are seeing more and more insurance companies speaking out about the cost of climate change as the bills keep rising
     
  22. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, you are getting weather and climate confused.
     
  23. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Tell me how please - this should be entertaining!
     
  24. MannieD

    MannieD New Member

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    And how long did it take for the glaciers to recede? I am guessing it was more than 200 or 300 years; which is the time frame for the current climate to drastically change.

    The discussion was about a stable climate. Do you accept that climate was stable during the Holocene? And do you believe that a stable climate allows animals and plants to flourish?
     
  25. Windigo

    Windigo Banned

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    No and no. Your black line is the aggregate of various climate reconstructions. It means nothing. All it shows is that climate reconstructions are a crock of (*)(*)(*)(*). None of them agree, so they aggregate to 0. The aggregate is no more accurate than any individual reconstruction and there is no reason to think that the aggregate is any more accurate than any individual reconstruction. In fact since each individual reconstruction shows a widely variable climate the aggregate is easily the least representative of the all the series. I know you dont understand this and I'm wasting my time.

    As for plants and animals flourishing in a stable climate. No for starters the climate has never been stable. Plants and animals have flourished in a warming climate.
     

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