Guns and kids

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Bowerbird, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    No, I just know the basics and the appropriateness of adopting objective literature review methods. Anyone could do it, but the gun cronies just don't like the conclusions!

    I didn't say you had so why the question? Perhaps you want to deny that the pro-gunners on here are reliant on poor secondary sources? Go ahead and try (please make sure you message all of them so that they behave appropriately and radically change their behaviour!)

    Complete tosh! I merely refer to published peer reviewed scientific evidence. That obviously includes all sides (e.g. Kleck versus Cook/Ludwig). Its just factual to note that the majority of the evidence effectively laughs at your position
     
  2. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Oh really? You can carry a "30 story building" in your pocket?

    Big pockets, I guess.
     
  3. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    You might want to get a better understanding of spurious relationships.
     
  4. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Quit trolling, Bondo. You obviously have no idea what's being discussed.
     
  5. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    What "other" studies, specifically are you referring to? Without those, your charge is hypocritical.
     
  6. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You will find studies that try to prove that more guns means more violence since there is a very well funded effort to do such a thing. The Joyce Foundation is behind many of the gun control efforts. The real goal of gun control is gun registration or confiscation which registration leads to. Ask any Aussie. Gun registration has failed miserably in Canada but that does not stop them from trying. In the US, if federal registration were tried, there would be many catches of guns buried across the nation. If that were to happen, I personally would lose all my guns in a boating accident. :)

    Here you go. Something for you to read with lots of references to previous studies.

    Do Guns Cause Crime?

    http://hnn.us/articles/871.html

    The theory that more guns men more violence flies counter to the facts in the US where gun ownership has increased and most States have passed Carry laws and violent crime has decreased over the last decade until just recently which can be attributed to the economy since past increased gun ownership did not correspond to an increase in violence but in a drop in violence.

    Something else:

    http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
     
  7. SpotsCat

    SpotsCat New Member Past Donor

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    Hey baby, is that a 30-story building in your pants, or are you just happy to see me? :D
     
  8. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    Don't be asinine,it's all about intent not having a gun won't stop one intent on suicide
     
  9. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    You might want to get a better understanding of facts......fact: Japan has serious gun control...Fact:Japan's suicide rate is climbing,/fact: gun control has nothing to do with the suicide rate
     
  10. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    No, 'fact: more than one factor impacts on suicide rates; fact: you're ignoring the multiple variables to make unsupportable claim"
     
  11. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Ayuh,... Fact; You refuse to accept studies Better than yer's...

    That are actually Provable with Facts, rather than Spin...
     
  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    That isn't either an empirical study or a review. Where, for example, is the reference to papers like Duggan? You'd know this if you had done your research!
     
  13. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    As I said, yer Agenda driven studies can't be proven in the Real world, there for, represents Theory, not reality....
     
  14. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All he needs is one study backing up his personal bias and he is a happy (and smug) camper.
     
  15. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    As I said, you've chosen a very poor source (check the site and you'll find its been used multiple times by people who don't understand the evidence; its obviously been spoon-fed via a pro-gunner site). Is it an empirical study? No. It just provides some very simplistic data and fails to undertake any hypothesis testing. Is it a review article on a par with a meta-analysis? No. It excludes the majority of the econometric research, probably because the authors don't understand them
     
  16. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    Ahhhh,no,it seems YOU are......and you deny Japan has gun control?...and you deny their suicide rate is rising?
     
  17. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I refer to the obvious: there are multiple variables impacting on suicide and, without controlling for those variables, there is nothing we can deduce over gun control effects. This is all obvious so I don't understand why you find it so difficult to comprehend
     
  18. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    I find it hard to understand why you can't admit being wrong.

    We're NOT talking about 'multiple variables' impacting the suicide rate, we are specifically mentioning gun control and it's so-called reduction in suicide rates...I've shown it doesn't reduce suicide rates, and you keep spinning..
     
  19. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to be wrong. It would be much easier if guns didn't have these effects. The evidence shows otherwise.

    I am as I'm talking with 'sense'. Its not possible to make any comment over the effects of gun control without controlling for these variables. You don't have ceteris paribus and therefore you have no means to test gun hypothesis. Catch up now! You've been told this numerous times and the logic cannot be questioned
     
  20. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    NO the 'evidence' does NOT show this...in fact it shows it has NO relation at all
     
  21. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    We've already shown that's not the case. You seem to think ignoring the evidence will work wonders. Each to their own I suppose. I personally find that quite appalling
     
  22. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    "asinine" Can be subjective, friend. The fact that you are now attempting to move the goalposts tells me you are aware that your original comment was perhaps "asinine" itself. You had called it "nonsense", the fact that guns do not have perfect substitutes. Your evidence for this was citing a "30 story building", saying "THAT is a perfect substitute". The fact that a 30 story building is NOT mobile or portable destroys your claim.
     
  23. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    Pro Death for the unborn but anti gun. Do you think that fetuses are armed and dangerous when they emerge and that's why you gotta go in and gettem?
     
  24. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Apparently, your opinions as to gun control are seated more in irrational fears than in practical knowledge. Your observation not correct.






    This article does not mention suicide even once. I fail to see how this could be considered any sort of contrary evidence to Reiver's.





    What struck me about this review was the authors insistence on using a flawed model to study suicide effects. They persistently and exclusively looked at national comparisons without controlling for cultural differences. There are better ways to look at this phenomena and Reiver has tried to enlighten you as to this. I suspect that your illusions as to what motivates those of us who would like to see stricter gun laws, has clouded your ability to be objective as to this.
     
  25. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Thank you for confirming my point for me. You have once again made a spurious relationship.
     

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