Fast Food workers declare minimum wage "unlivable"

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by AndrogynousMale, Jul 30, 2013.

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  1. bomac

    bomac New Member Past Donor

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    It is becoming clear to me, that most conservatives don't have the slightest idea what a free market it. When they think that America has had a free market, they really don't have a clue. We set up a republic with people's rights.

    Yes, workers have a right to negotiate with management over wages and benefits. That has rarely happened in the last 30 years. Only the remaining few unions have been able to do that.

    Many of you "free market thinkers" must be under 40. You should have seen how the "market" worked after WW2 for that 30 years.
     
  2. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    It seems pretty evident that anybody who would vote the party line, for either of the two party scam, is mentally defective, and should not be allowed to vote for the rest of their lives. :roflol:
     
  3. bomac

    bomac New Member Past Donor

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    Disagree. Although I am a Green Party member and hate many Green Party candidates, we cannot take the vote of stupid people away. The minority should never be allowed to rule the country.
     
  4. Wake_Up

    Wake_Up New Member

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    Well, as long as you continue to have the exaggerated notion of what you describe and continued jealousy of any successful person you will forever wallow in your self loathing. Am I correct to understand you saw a car with a bumper sticker and jumped to this absurd conclusion?

    Of course, I can give a real world example that is 180 degrees the opposite. The company I work for is privately owned. The eldest son is the President of the company, but it wasn't handed to him. In order to get the position he has, he was required to get a college education, he was also required to work for several years at jobs in other companies, not the family business. He was then required to work at lower positions within his father's company. He didn't make it to President until he was in his mid 40's. He wasn't just handed the position because of who he is. Any of the family members do not automatically get any position, they apply, interview and work entry level positions, just like joe schmo off the street. They aren't exempt from being fired either because that has happened as well.

    Which clover you roll in is your decision and your doing. With absolute rare exception, it's no one's fault, or responsibility but your own. If someone is born into a rich family and gets handed everything, oh well, it happens, but that's definitely the exception and not the rule, so jealousy over these few, privileged types is hardly worth getting your panties in a wad over.

    As for $10 an hour, it shows something, that you're no longer making minimum wage, so at the very least you've managed to hold a job, you've managed to progress beyond beginner and you've learned something and applied it.

    That's how it works. You aren't automatically worth anything. You do get minimum wage to start, in a lot of jobs. What you do after that is up to you.
     
  5. Burzmali

    Burzmali Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Forgive me if this has been put forth already, but has anyone considered this argument from the point of how much this kind of work is actually worth? Exactly what skills are required to get the food right (I'm excluding cashier for the moment here)? Counting to 50, maybe 200 if you work at Chik-fil-a, is the only education-related skill I can think of that is required to properly prepare food at one of these places. So that's something a first grader can do. The work is not physically intensive, it's not stressful, and it requires a first grade education. Literally anyone of working age can do it. Why should that warrant a "livable" wage?
     
  6. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    I see what you did there :blankstare: ..., but it is too late a minority already rules the plutocracy, uh I mean the country. And there is nothing anybody can do to stop it. Well there is but these idiots continue to do the same thing (voting for the two party scam) and expect different results
     
  7. bomac

    bomac New Member Past Donor

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    Because it is the right thing to do.
     
  8. Burzmali

    Burzmali Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which is completely subjective and certainly doesn't make any sense from a business perspective.
     
  9. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    1st and foremost, noticing a crack in the ceiling where water leaks in from, does not make a person jealous of the leak. Kay?

    2nd, I know the kid who has the car with the bumper sticker on it, and the hardest work he does is order the help around when mommy and daddy are not home to do it for him. His life is/has already been laid out for him, unless he falls off the face of the earth into the abyss, or has a tragic deadly accident. Nothing he does will change the fact he will be the VP after he graduates, and when he talks he sounds just like you.

    3rd, NEVER, anyplace ever when I typed did I say that hard work doesn't give a person a fair chance of climbing up the economic ladder (doesn't guarantee it will happen either), I simply understand that the odds of getting out of poverty starting from nothing, isn't even comparable to somebody born into wealth with advantages 85% of the population will never see/have. Again this is not jealousy, just the facts jack, and I don't wear panties, nor would I allow them to get in a bunch over things I neither control or have a say in.

    4th, couldn't tell you about minimum wage, since I have never had to make a living, living at such a disturbing level of destitution. I did work for minimum wage in the early 70's for about 3 days at a summer job when I was upgraded by a $.35 raise, or a 43% increase, when I was a fountain boy at A&W, and even then the lady I worked for apologized for thinking so little of such a hard worker as myself. Even when I had a paper route before that I wasn't making minimum wage (actually it broke down to about $3.50 an hour, well over double, almost triple the minimum wage). When I entered the work force I would do everything in my power to keep from having to work for minimum wage, and I would never work for, or have any sort of respect for anyone who offered such a demeaning wage. Another reason why I am so glad I am not so disadvantaged as individuals entering the work force in this day and age.

    Nobody is paying these people based on their worth or their work ethics, they are being paid what the business dictates to pay because they (the business) have all the advantages, and do not have to offer them any more, and they do so not because they have to, but because they want to and do so willingly. Every dime you can cheat an employee out of is a dime in the green, and (*)(*)(*)(*) them, they are free to mooch off the government like the rest of the underpaid in this country.

    And that is the mind set of employers these days, and 'how it works'. It really is that simple.
     
  10. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    Yes please.


    No we know. It is a nonsensical notion invented by capitalists to mask and promote their agenda. The free market is a fairy tale that has never and will never exist.




    Yes everything is simple to 'free market people." However to everyone else back in the real world, things are less so.


    This is insanely absurd. The market doesn't need human interaction to exist? The market is essentially a collection of an enormous number of human interactions. Without human interactions, markets actually objectively would not exist. What in the world are you talking about?


    Again, the market is just a placeholder. It isn't a tangible thing. It can't make judgements. It is an amalgamation of all the decisions individual people make on a regular basis. Market forces are determined by the activities and decisions of human beings. This is not up for debate. It is undeniable. If people refuse to work for a certain amount of money, more money will need to be offered to create an incentive to obtain their labor. You are completely ignoring the labor supply curve. Equilibrium does not exist where the demand curve wants it to exist, it exists where the demand curve meets the supply curve. So what people are willing to pay compared to what people are willing to supply the labor for. This is economics 101, first day of economics 101 really. Do keep up.
     
  11. conhog

    conhog Banned

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    Correct . And the MINIMUM manipulation would be to index the minimum wage with inflation. Not to monkey around with the formula.

    Let me ask you two questions. Answer sincerely please

    Was the average American worker better off 40 years ago?

    Did the USG spend less per capita on welfare 40 years ago?

    Of course the answer to BOTH questions is a big fat yes, proving the point that the failure to maintain the minimum wage to inflation standards has hurt both the lower income employees and the government. The ONLY people it has helped is the rich business owner.

    Then if you couple that with this insane desire to lower their tax burden, it only compounds the problem.

    Can you truly not see that the rich want to keep their money on both ends? They don't want to pay decent wages AND they don't want to pay taxes. I'm sorry , but greed is good only to a point. That point was probably crossed when my 8 year old daughter became $40K in tax debt.

    And here is what I actually believe concerning "conservatives" I believe that the vast majority of conservatives would ENDORSE the idea of a minimum wage increase if it weren't perceived to be a "left wing" platform.

    It is HIGH time that forget about partisan politics and just support GOOD ideas and reject bad ones, no matter where they come from.

    And don't worry,, I believe many many on the left are guilty of the same stupidity.
     
  12. conhog

    conhog Banned

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    you dumb, you REAL dumb.

    We in NO way have a free market.

    You want to see a TRUE free market? Go to China , where the rich do whatever the hell they want unless and until someone stronger tells them they can't. Hell, they force prisoners to work, they have no safety codes, nor environmental codes. There is no minimum wage or child labor laws and thus 40 year old businessmen are riding around in chauffered limos while their factories are "manned" by 12 year old kids who are working 18 hours a day building little toys covered in lead based paint.

    THAT is a free market. Thank God we don't live in one, but rather we live in a society where the government exerts some controls over the businesses.
     
  13. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    The only way raising the minimum wage will be productive is if the money comes from the wages/salaries of upper management, where it has been going for the past 30-40 years. That ain't gonna happen.

    What will happen is everything will cost more so there will be no gain, and people who worked for years to get to a certain level will be at the bottom again.

    What the hell exactly is gained?
     
  14. conhog

    conhog Banned

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    Um sir, stupid Americans are actually the MAJORITY, and yes I am all for taking their "right" to vote away.
     
  15. conhog

    conhog Banned

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    That's actually incorrect. If OSHA or the Health Department comes into a McDonalds , ANY employee they ask better know the relevant standards or the entire restaurant could be fined or even shut down.

    In other words, the "burger flipper" better know what temperature his meat needs to be kept at and for how long, as well as condiments and veggies. He better know his correct cooking temperatures, he better know the times he has to wash his hands, she better know the fire escape route, etc etc right on down the line.

    I know, my friend has told me several stories of firing employees who screwed up when questioned.

    Okay it's not rocket science, but it's not just stand there and flip out burgers with no other thought either.
     
  16. conhog

    conhog Banned

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    You're correct . It doesn't make business sense; which is why we shouldn't let businesses be the sole decider. After all, it doesn't make business sense for me to spend $20K a year disposing of old oil when I could just dump it down the drain for free.

    Oh but the EPA will fine the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of me for that so I do the thing which doesn't make business sense unless I'm forced to.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Why wouldn't it happen? Oh I'm quite sure you're right that businesses wouldn't voluntarily do it but that's what the government is for.
     
  17. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    It won't come from the upper managements pocket. It will come from the consumers pocket, and that at this point is counter productive.
     
  18. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    15 TRUTHS ABOUT CHASING YOUR DREAMS AND STARTING WITH NOTHING

    1. Work is hard.
    2. You won’t always get what you want.
    3. You don’t know everything, and lots you may never know.
    4. There are no guarantees, not even tomorrow.
    5. You can’t control everything.
    6. Information is not true knowledge, and beliefs are not facts.
    7. If you want success you must prove value/worth.
    8. Someone else will always have more than/be better than you.
    9. You can’t change the past.
    10. The only person who can make you happy is you.
    11. There will always be people who don’t like you.
    12. Sometimes you fail.
    13. Sometimes you will have to work for free or less than you are actually worth.
    14. Repetition is good, until it becomes stagnant.
    15. You will never make it if you do not try.
     
  19. bomac

    bomac New Member Past Donor

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    Why not? Aren't the same 80% fed up with wages just as fed up with passing any increase on to them?

    You presume that any increase will up the prices. To be honest, Big Business has been doing that for 30 years and have people believing that will always be true. We had inflation and wage increases the 34 years before 1981 but wage increases usually outpaced inflation. In the last 30 years inflation has outpaced wage increases.

    We will always have a "bottom" but we do not have to keep them as bad off as they are today. Thanks to government (state and Federal) aid, even today's poor are still surviving and in some ways (especially heath care) they are doing better than 50 years ago.
     
  20. SourD

    SourD New Member Past Donor

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    Talk about DUMB! China is no way a free market. It is controlled centrally AND it uses slave labor that the government ALLOWS!
     
  21. bomac

    bomac New Member Past Donor

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    See, you believe that because that has happened for 30 years. Also the top get more than the salaries as income. Profits go to them and we have to change that distribution.
     
  22. bomac

    bomac New Member Past Donor

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    Your truths do not mean that Americans cannot demand more and work for changes.
     
  23. Burzmali

    Burzmali Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All a basic employee has to be able to do is point to a sign that indicates those things and demonstrate that he/she comprehends it. At the McDonalds I worked at in high school, you didn't even have to be literate to know what those signs said. Lots of pretty pictures for the guy who dropped out when he failed to make it through 8th grade for the second time. The "key person" (position between basic prep and manager) is the one who might have to rattle something off for an inspector, but then that position pays more than minimum wage.
     
  24. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    Well in the past 30 years every time there has been an increase in minimum wage, costs usually go up in three phases. Once they know it is going to go into effect, just before it goes into effect, and once just after it goes into effect. It's great for the business owners because they get to blame the government, and in almost every case, they made extra money too. I remember a minimum wage increase that went into effect back in the 1980's and snack foods went from $.40 to $.60, and they said it was due to the place that made the snacks having to pay higher wages to their employees, but there was only one flaw. The employees were all union, and none of them got a pay raise even thought the product had a 50% increase in price, the upper management however got all kinds of bonuses, and benefits, tax deductible stuff for sure.

    I'm sure that most of these corporate clowns are venting the need to raise minimum wage but in actuality can hardly wait because they are going to fan-dangle a salary increase and bonuses for all the conniving they do to get themselves a bigger piece of the pie. The government works for them. And it is never too much for the public to stop buying the merchandise
     
  25. Burzmali

    Burzmali Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're comparing apples to torture with that post. Maybe you can find a slightly less hysterical illustration for your argument.
     
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