Discussion regarding abortion in cases of birth defects

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Junkieturtle, May 3, 2012.

  1. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8,661
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Maybe you should clarify what you mean by a "life". Do you mean something that is living? Because we terminate living cells all the time.

    Who are we? We are women who are required to sustain that life at a cost to our own bodies.
     
  2. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    15,838
    Likes Received:
    7,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    That's just one of those plays on words that the right likes to do, like calling a zygote a "BABY". The procedure has to be called something, or should it be nameless? Then, when women go to the doctor, they can say "Hey, I'd like to get one of those, you know, those things. Ya follow me, doc?".
     
  3. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    31,639
    Likes Received:
    7,735
    Trophy Points:
    113

    I won 't derail this thread which is about birth defects. The nonsense of killing that which has no life was raised by Cady.
     
  4. OKgrannie

    OKgrannie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    10,923
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Abortion IS sometimes necessary when the ZEF dies but does not spontaneously abort. Abortion is not necessarily "killing" but it is termination of the pregnancy.
     
  5. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Who are we? We are people who can legally kill another human life without going to jail. We can kill our own children.

    The cost? It is not about us…we are living, will live, we can make choices. The unborn pays the cost. Our bodies were formed, constructed to be able to have children, it is part of being female. This is not a fact that we don't know about. We get periods….we just know also that should we have sex, that we just might get pregnant. This is not a risk that men take…with their bodies. Sure they have sperm and it is living…but when sperm is ejaculated say during masterbation….nothing happens. It needs to join with a woman's egg….to start a human life. Sure its cells…..but it is different when it meets up with an egg. But as women we are not required to do anything. We are not forced to bear children, it is an option. We are not forced unless a rape occurs to have sex. The women has a choice here. If someone does not want a child, there are options. Get your tubes tied…double up the protection. But no force is there…….so when you talk about a cost…it is one that is not forced.

    Giving birth in PAIN was a punishment from God for our sin, the ability to bear children however was a blessing. And if you don't believe in god then….not much would make sense I suppose and you would have to guess at reasons why we are different.
    But the fact remains…that no one forces us to have sex….or to take that risk….we make the decisions.
     
  6. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You are absolutely wrong…here. Abortion kills you are in denial. If no interference happened to the unborn…..it would grow and be born. Abortion is the willing act by a woman and the hired abortionist……..to kill, to stop, to eliminate the life growing. ABORTION KILLS A LIVING HUMAN.

    I can't believe the stupidity of some statements. TERMINATE…..MEANS KILL.
     
  7. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    15,838
    Likes Received:
    7,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If you're going to play word games, at least try to get the definitions correct when you do.

    Also, if you're not here to discuss abortion in the case of birth defects specifically, you're in the wrong thread and straying from the topic. You're active in plenty of abortion threads that deal with general abortion discussion including the legality and morality of it.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terminate


    ter·mi·nate
       [tur-muh-neyt] verb, ter·mi·nat·ed, ter·mi·nat·ing.
    verb (used with object)
    1.
    to bring to an end; put an end to: to terminate a contract.
    2.
    to occur at or form the conclusion of: The countess's soliloquy terminates the play.
    3.
    to bound or limit spatially; form or be situated at the extremity of.
    4.
    to dismiss from a job; fire: to terminate employees during a recession.
     
  8. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    31,639
    Likes Received:
    7,735
    Trophy Points:
    113

    we're allowing this to be derailed. Of course it's about life or death and abortionists do not want to admit that.

    The same is with babies with birth defects. Who are we to judge what is or isn't quality of life
     
  9. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The issue is about killing something if it is not perfect. The topic did not shift. You want to bring up cases that justify killing. Your pro-abort position justifies killing so for you….why even bring this up…. in this case these two examples of imperfect humans?
    You are desperately trying to find reasons that make your position moral. Suffering is not an issue….people suffer. If suffering was an issue then would you also entertain the idea of killing children who were allowed to be born and are suffering?

    Suffering is part of life….not a person that has ever been born does not suffer in one way or another. The issue is killing here….killing a human being because he/she is not perfect. You take on the role of God…..Obviously quality of life means something terribly different for you. You can't get past the idea that someone should be killed if they are going to look different, or that the handicap they are born with might stop them from ever being happy.
    In these two cases on the video….these men suffered but look at them. I suppose you think their lives are not worth much….so sad….so cold a terrible way to look at life.

    They are teaching people something….and they are happy for the most part. I am sure at times they get down and frustrated but don't we all? No, I suppose you don't do you?
     
  10. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    WE can't judge that is the point. But abortion is always about killing….whatever the reason.
     
  11. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Let me then add two more words. TERMINATE A LIFE. This means killing it, ending it, not for a minute, an hour….for good. Abortion terminates a life forever. There ya go…….
     
  12. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hey Junkie you going to answer the question I asked you in post 21? yes or no
     
  13. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    15,838
    Likes Received:
    7,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have answered that question for you in other threads, multiple times, including limitations on abortion law. There is no need to rehash it here yet again.
     
  14. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Excuse….we have discussed all this over and over and over….your running and hey its ok….I don't blame you because to say it again…would just convict you again and show the weaknesses in your position…they hypocrisy of it all.
     
  15. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    15,838
    Likes Received:
    7,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Explain to me the logic behind telling me that I am running from the question when I have previously answered your question multiple times? I am running, in a sense, but what I'm running FROM is your desire to talk in circles.
     
  16. Cady

    Cady Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2010
    Messages:
    8,661
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Thanks for sharing the basis for your position, that women are inherently sinners, and shouldn't be allowed to escape punishment by having abortions.
     
  17. TheHat

    TheHat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2008
    Messages:
    20,931
    Likes Received:
    179
    Trophy Points:
    63
    This comment speaks for itself.

    You are selfish for remaining alive and wanting to be with your family and they with you. That is considered selfish...lmao!

    Nothing else to say here....
     
  18. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sorry I forgot you are a Pagan.
     
  19. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You post in circles as well….asking and commenting on the same things….we all do. None of us changing positions but rehashing the same points over and over….YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT.

    A simple yes or no…..is it that hard? LOL
     
  20. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    15,838
    Likes Received:
    7,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How many times do I ask you to answer a question that I have previously asked you to answer multiple times, and that you have answered multiple times upon those requests?
     
  21. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    18,423
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How about the quality of the death some of those children would have experienced had you gotten your way? Do you wonder about that, too?
     
  22. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    15,838
    Likes Received:
    7,350
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, I don't, because there is a huge unmistakeable difference between going through life with one or more debilitating birth defects, and aborting a damaged fetus before it's born.

    I find it odd that no one is willing to address this from the perspective of these poor children. I don't want to say that every birth defect is the same, or that no child born with one could ever have good quality of life. The purpose of my thread though was to examine what their quality of life is like, to the best that we can since there's a good chance that no posters here suffer from debilitating birth defects(and if there are, maybe provide some perspective for us).

    I mean, are some of you that adamantly opposed to abortion that you wouldn't even consider it in terms of mercy for a severely damage fetus, and if so, are you doing it because you are truly concerned about that child and what IT will have to suffer through, or because you don't want to deal with the personal consequences of choosing mercy over absolutist principles?
     
  23. marleyfin

    marleyfin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    2,105
    Likes Received:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Unless the child will be in pain from the defect, I see no "mercy" in the abortion. Lots of handi-capped and retarded children are very happy and that is what I think quality of life means. I personally did not have the testing done when pregnant, the results are not always accurate and wouldn't have changed my decision so I didn't see a reason to have them done.
     
  24. churchmouse

    churchmouse New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2012
    Messages:
    4,739
    Likes Received:
    45
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You say the woman has rights but you want to eliminate the rights of people simply because they are not perfect like you seem to think you are. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DETERMINE SOMEONE ELSES QUALITY OF LIFE. JUST WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?

    Mercy for you is killing children.
     
  25. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Messages:
    18,423
    Likes Received:
    886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But of course that's not what we're talking about. What we're talking about is euthanizing an unborn child.

    And I find it odd that you pretend to be any more willing to do so than anyone else.

    Speaking for myself that would be a definite yes.

    Better you should ask whether this fraudulent sense of compassion of yours is a cover for an unconscious contempt for innocent human life.
     

Share This Page