Is Communism misunderstood?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by AndrogynousMale, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. AndrogynousMale

    AndrogynousMale Active Member

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    It should be obvious that I'm not a Communist, but one thing that irks me is how little people know of the Communist ideology, yet are willing to attach everything they don't like with it. Many Fox News hosts and ultra conservatives are guilty of this. Anything that isn't a 100% conservative stance is instantly seen as communistic. Why is this?

    I'll admit the Communist Manifesto is hard to get through, but it's a great start to at least understanding where many radical Leftists come from. Capital is another book to start with, and both are written by Karl Marx. I've also entertained myself by reading Leftist forums to see their side of the debate on many issues.

    I wasn't converted to Communism by learning about it, but I found it extremely interesting and enlightening. So why is everyone against learning about it? Are they afraid they might agree with it? That last one was actually a fear of mine.

    So what do you guys think?
     
  2. Blackrook

    Blackrook Banned

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    I have recently converted to liberalism, but I'm not sure I want to become a Communist. Tell me, is there a difference?
     
  3. Burz

    Burz New Member

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  4. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    Liberalism is the vehicle.

    Communism is the destination.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Liberalism is the vehicle.

    Communism is the destination.
     
  5. Blackrook

    Blackrook Banned

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    I understand that Communists in the past have killed millions of people, and yet Communists claim that all past instances of Communism are not true Communism, and we should give them another chance to prove themselves.

    As a recently converted liberal, I am confused by this argument. Is it my role as a liberal to be totally blind to the evils of Communism?
     
  6. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    Communism did throw out some good ideas, however much of it goes hard against human nature, no one has really gotten it to work. The reality is, capitalism salted with a few grains of communism or socialism is a pretty good way to go.
     
  7. AndrogynousMale

    AndrogynousMale Active Member

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    For some reason, I don't believe you. You've always been extremely conservative to me.
     
  8. Blackrook

    Blackrook Banned

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    I understand that my role as a liberal is to denounce capitalism while simulatenously enjoying its benefits such as iphones and Starbucks coffee. Is that more or less accurate?
     
  9. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    The question is, did communism fail or did people exploit the system. The fact no one has really gotten it to work as advertised shows there are weaknesses in the philosophy we may never overcome
     
  10. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    Look, I subscribe to formulae, not ideologies.
     
  11. Blackrook

    Blackrook Banned

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    How can I assure you of my sincerity that I have genuinely converted to liberalism?

    Since I no longer believe in God, I cannot swear an oath on the Bible.

    Can I swear an oath on a copy of Darwin's "On the Origin of Species"?
     
  12. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    I don't have an iphone an I rarely go to starbucks. But I'm not sure why you'd be calling me a liberal and a Bolshevik at the same time, they are opposites of sorts.
     
  13. Blackrook

    Blackrook Banned

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    And yet, Communists urge us to keep giving them another chance to try their experiment.

    Sort of like the scientist who accidentally kills all the monkeys in his lab, and keeps asking for more monkeys.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Burz, I didn't call you anything at all. If you're a liberal or a Communist makes no difference to me. All I know is that conservatives are the real enemy, and we liberals and Communists have to work together against them. Right?
     
  14. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    I wouldn't say so, no.
     
  15. philxx

    philxx New Member

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    There exists an opposition to the Stalinist betrayers of the International workers Movement ,and I do note the in the link supplied No mention of the Leader and organiser of the Revolution itself ,Leon Trotsky who was along with Lenin the foremost leaders of the Russian Revolution.

    After ,expelling Trotsky in 1928 ,and eventually murdering him in 1940 stalin set about rewriting Soviet history .Stalinist School of Historical Falsification,oh lets not forget the other capitialist school ,that had a very definite intrest in this process ,after trotsky was expelled ,no nation on the Planet would grant him asylum ,anyone that thinks that Stalinism and Socialism or communism are equal ,is either ignorant or conciously deceiving.

    2 schools ,the Stalinist School of Historical falsification and the Capitialist School of Falsification ,see that both had a vested intrest in suppression of the truth concerning Socialism in the 20th century .

    We are still paying a price.

    As for wikipedias 'analysis '=crap!

    www.wsws.org =truth on this question as it is the Party of Trotsky against Stalin!
     
    mutmekep and (deleted member) like this.
  16. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    Trotsky could never have held power. He unsuccessfully tried to oust the party.
     
  17. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    Well plenty of fascists out there advocate getting a second chance as well. Doesn't mean they deserve one
     
  18. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    Well in terms of the rest of the world that was probably an exceedingly good thing
     
  19. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    Might have avoided Nazi Germany.
     
  20. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

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    At the possible cost of a communist Germany and France. Trotsky was very big on internationalizing communism, and I think he would have done a better job in Germany than Stalin
     
  21. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    Don't worry, you'll hear the same excuses why every single communist experiment lead to authoritarianism, oppression, and millions killed.

    "But but but, they didn't do it right."
     
  22. Burz

    Burz New Member

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    France is rather socialist anyway.
     
  23. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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  24. gslack

    gslack New Member

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    Communism seems to be one of things that sounds and looks great on paper, but in practice it's limited by the people and their evolutionary stages.. On paper we read, equality of the masses, equal shares,all working together for the greater good of one another, which is all well and good but every time it's been tried we got oppressive regimes, closed societies, stagnant social structure, and no real voice of the people.

    The philosophy claims to uplift the people so they are all equal, but so far it has always led to lowering the people to the same poverty levels. It seems to me it won't work until we are able to curb our baser instincts. Any body in power wants to stay in power, just as any political body wants to. Take away real elections by the people themselves and soon you have a stagnant government and separate class of rulers. A body of political elites who decide everything for their people with no oversight save their own. Which in reality is no different than any oligarchy.
     
  25. mutmekep

    mutmekep New Member

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    Communism according to orthodox Marxistm is the evolution of capitalism like capitalism is the evolution of feudalism.
    Now this may be true or may be not , of course capitalism will not last forever but nobody can be certain how societies will evolve.

    Without getting too politically heavy so our Texan friends can understand communism relies at self governed communities and there are no countries or "central" governments , the purpose is to achieve autarky (to be self sufficient) in an environment of liberty & equality

    Why self proclaimed regimes failed ? because societies were not ready to take the next step , you can not force evolution , it is a long painful road that ends with a choice . In our current state mankind is too selfish / self-centered and humans are still get impressed with trinkets and will sell their social Manhattan for them .
    One of the very important aspects of communism is the ability to remove someone from office , how many of the self proclaimed communists let someone remove them?

    For the neoliberal / capitalist world of course communism is a nightmare because it will mean its end but no matter the slander and the misinformation communism will not come after a revolution (in the scenario that there isn't something better in the horizon) but after a conscious choice to work all together to achieve our goals instead of expecting from leaders to guide us .
     

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