Proof that Illegals Are Not Taking Jobs From Americans...

Discussion in 'Immigration' started by OldManOnFire, Sep 28, 2010.

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  1. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    The OP was about proof that illegals arent taking jobs from americans. My comment only states the reality, that they do.
     
  2. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I don't personally care if a worker is legal or not. If I'm an employer I only care that I have hired the best worker for the compensation I can provide. If illegals have jobs, they didn't TAKE these from anyone! Especially in cases in which the pay and benefits fall within legal pay scales. My position is if anyone wants a job, then go out and get that job...stop complaining...stop blaming others for their failure to find work. If they can't compete against illegals, for whatever reasons, assuming a fair playing field regarding compensation, then Americans need to improve their worth to employers! I would feel like a pathetic failure if I could not go out and compete for jobs with illegals!!!!
     
  3. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    I was responding to the OP. You do understand the negative effects of too great of a rate of natural increase (RNI) correct? Immigration policy is in place for several important reasons. Most developed countries that I know of have an immigration policy if there are people who want to go there.
     
  4. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    What does RNI have to do with illegals supposedly taking jobs from Americans?

    And YOU cannot define 'too great of a rate of RNI' because this depends on the local and regional situations.

    How many developed countries do you know of who allow immigrants unlimited stay time?

    Lastly, no matter the RNI rates, this does not necessarily correlate to a gain or loss of jobs. Jobs are the result of economic growth! If there becomes an imbalance of employment, either the quantity of workers is the issue, and/or the economy is the issue.

    The US allows more green card applicants each year than we see net-illegal immigrants coming into the country. If you believe our RNI is too high, then the US should stop allowing nearly one million green card applicants per year...
     
  5. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    When did I say the RNI was too high or too low?? You seemed to have jumped the gun a bit old man. I have considered the listed factors you have provided. You really do not know how many illegals come here every year. you have only estimates which vary greatly fromsource to source.
     
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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  7. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    I dont have a problem with that so long as they come here legally.
     
  8. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    Oh... like you took their land "legally" and out of guilt gave them 20 million dollars... and 5 million later... for 1/4 of America. It's really their land and if you don't know it you need to find out.


    I can tell that there is only 1 person here (other than me) who has actually worked with these people you spite. If you dare to go out and take a working job you'll know their value to the US economy. Your produce department would not only be extremely expensive without them... but it would be barren. You just have no idea the hard work they do in construction and other manual labor jobs... for very low wages and 0 appreciation. I hope in the next life you have to work as hard for them as they have for you.
     
  9. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    If you would have read a few more posts you would understand the context of the conversation. I just said my girlfriend was an illegal immigrant.
     
  10. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your quote: "I dont have a problem with that so long as they come here legally."

    Turn in your girlfriend.
     
  11. TRS

    TRS New Member

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  12. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    Anyone can find a few isolated examples of problems with immigrants but the majority do difficult work that you won't do. Your argument proves you have never been out there in the real world working with them.

    Did you know that MOST have income taxes withheld and they almost NEVER get any refunds. The government knows this and is happy to keep their returns. They have EXTREME difficulty making a report to OSHA and other agencies for unsafe working conditions. Millions get hurt and just have to wake it off.
     
  13. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    So you don't have a problem if they are here legally and/or "giving it up." Tell me, do you pay the standard $100 /hr rate that "girlfriends make" or does she also make minimum wages?

    Ok.. I know I'm being mean spirited but it really agitates me when I know we took their land and now work them like slaves and complain while they are picking our crops, landscaping our homes, raising our children, building our structures... and thousands of other tasks. I think God will judge us... we sure would NOT want for someone to treat us that way.
     
  14. TRS

    TRS New Member

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    Yes there are a "few" who do put into income taxes on a legitimate basis.But you have many more who use stolen SS numbers,fake SS numbers. Then you have people who have to pay for those stolen/fake SS numbers.Lets say you find out years later that your SS number was used by an illegal immigrant. In that time ,the illegal immigrant buys a car,credit cards,and maybe even a house. Thats all on your SS number. Not to mention if that ingrate gets a ticket or a law breaking offense,its on your good name.How much do you think that will cost?

    Then you have the estimated cost of illegals in the hundreds of billions of dollars.What little they pay in is not offset from those billions of dollars.

    You are correct about one thing .
    When an illegal is working illegally in the US there hands are tied behind there back. If they get hurt,the employer just sends them to the emergency room. how much is that a year?

    Who's fault is it that they came to work in the US illegally? Who's fault is it that they can't go to OSHA (which is kinda not true. When I was a code enforcement officer we had illegals complain about all kinds of problems).

    The whole point is that they cost way more than what little they put in. The only people who benefits from them are people who use them as sheep.

    FYI...Did you know there is no budget for illegal immigrants? Its all an extra expenses for the government.
     
  15. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    No, she just told me about a week and a half ago.


    Illegal immigrants are raising your children?
     
  16. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    Well they can use my ss number and pay in tons of money that they never will collect on. They never apply for income tax refunds. The government profits to the tune of millions that they should have to refund.


    I can't argue that banks are sloppy with making bad loans... but do you really think you can walk in and take a loan with only a social security number? Where do you bank?

    I went in yesterday to withdraw some CASH and had to provide 3 types of identification. I know they would not have made me a loan with only a social security card.

    I'm telling you that I KNOW most come here to work and they work hard. Some commit crimes but did you condemn all white people because of Timothy McVeigh's act of terrorism?

    I know that I can't convince you that they are doing the "heavy lifting" and we owe them a great debt for making our lives easier and making our purchasing power much stronger... but I know that without them this country would be in much worse shape.

    Absolutely not. It is totally the opposite.

    But "those people" are YOU. You get food that they grow and harvest, you move into houses and go into buildings that they build. You just can't see that YOU are using them as sheep. Sometimes I wish they would disappear for a month so people would know what I know.
     
  17. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    I'm glad you reported her and sent her back. These girls bring in diseases and drugs and crime. We only want the good illegals.


    Not mine per say but how many high profile politicians have been caught using illegal workers as nanny's and housekeepers. It's going on from the top down.
     
  18. TRS

    TRS New Member

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    More myths. What your trying to say is that illegals built the entire USA. I'm sure the same thing will happen if they leave for a month,that happened when Mexicans said they were not buying anything for 1 day to make a point. Its estimated that the entire US economy lost about as much as a slow day at a snowed in mall.
     
  19. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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  20. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    Originally Posted by TRS
    Its a myth. illegals cost way more than they put in.

    __________________

     
  21. tblount

    tblount New Member

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    NO.... they were called SLAVES back then... the blacks who were the backbone of the Southern economy, the Chinese who built the railroads ... but now we call the Mexicans who are now doing the manual labor "illegals." It's a much nicer word than slaves... so we can feel good about ourselves.

    And CALIFORNIA has problems because of illegals ??? Give me a break!

    Don't cry for me Argentina ... I mean California. Their problems is a direct result of trying to finance big government by heavily taxing the wealthy... then the wealthy LEFT. Here is a clip from a web page that summarizes California's situation..

    It is easy to understand why there are now more Americans moving out of California each year than there are Americans moving into the state. California has become a complete and total disaster zone in more ways than one, and an increasing number of Californians are deciding that enough is enough and they are getting out for good.

    Sadly, the state of California is facing such a wide array of social, economic, and political problems that it is hard to even document them all. It is really one huge gigantic mess at this point.

    Just consider the following facts about what life is like in the state of California today....

    #1 Unemployment in the state of California was 12.4% in September - one of the highest rates in the nation.

    #2 The number of people unemployed in the state of California is approximately equivalent to the populations of Nevada, New Hampshire and Vermont combined.

    #3 Not even state government jobs are safe in California these days. Last month, government agencies in California slashed a total of 37,300 jobs.

    #4 California has the third highest state income tax in the nation: a 9.55% tax bracket at $47,055 and a 10.55% bracket at $1,000,000.

    #5 California has the highest state sales tax rate in the nation by far at 8.25%. Indiana has the next highest at 7%.

    #6 Residents of California pay the highest gasoline taxes (over 67 cents per gallon) in the United States.

    #7 Even with all of the taxes, the budget deficit for the California state government for the current year is approximately 19 billion dollars.

    #8 According to an article in the Wall Street Journal, California's unfunded pension liability is estimated to be somewhere between $120 billion and $500 billion.

    #9 20 percent of the residents of Los Angeles County are now receiving public aid.

    #10 Budget cuts are making life very difficult in many California cities. For example, Oakland, California Police Chief Anthony Batts says that due to severe budget cuts there are a number of crimes that his department will simply not be able to respond to any longer. The crimes that the Oakland police will no longer be responding to include grand theft, burglary, car wrecks, identity theft and vandalism.

    Things have gotten so bad in Stockton, California that the police union put up a billboard with the following message: "Welcome to the 2nd most dangerous city in California. Stop laying off cops."

    #11 According to one survey, approximately 1 in 4 Californians under the age of 65 had absolutely no health insurance last year.

    #12 California's poverty rate soared to 15.3 percent in 2009, which was the highest in 11 years.

    #13 California's overstretched health care system is also on the verge of collapse. Dozens of California hospitals and emergency rooms have shut down over the last decade because they could not afford to stay open after being endlessly swamped by illegal immigrants and poor Californians who were simply not able to pay for the services they were receiving. As a result, the remainder of the health care system in the state of California is now beyond overloaded. This had led to brutally long waits, diverted ambulances and even unnecessary patient deaths.

    #14 California home builders began construction on 1,811 homes during the month of August, which was down 77% from August 2006.

    #15 Earlier this year, it was reported that in the area around Sacramento, California there was one closed business for every six that were still open.

    #16 The "lawsuit climate" in California is ranked number 46 out of all 50 states.

    #17 Residents of California pay some of the highest electricity prices in the entire nation.

    #18 Over 20 percent of California homeowners are now underwater on their mortgages.

    #19 Large tent cities have been springing up all over the state of California. Just check out the following shocking video news report....

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRLupIRhrmg"]great depression us tent cities in SACREMENTO CALIFORNIA.avi - YouTube[/ame]


    Anyone wanting to have an accurate picture to predict the future of America only needs to watch what is going on in California. They are the canary in the coal mine, the rats on a sinking ship.
     
  22. TRS

    TRS New Member

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  23. TRS

    TRS New Member

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    I never said illegals were the sole reason for Americas problems. Thats your mistake assuming that.
     
  24. TRS

    TRS New Member

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    The word "illegal"refers to being in the US illegally,un-lawful. The blacks and Chinese were brought to the US as slaves. I don't think a Mexican who crosses the US border,and enter the US on its own will can be considered the same.
     
  25. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    This is no different than most 'political' issues in which most people approach them with totally closed minds wrapped around their heavily biased positions.

    We all know that illegal immigration does create some problems depending on the discussion, just like any other sector of people living in the USA, but this relatively tiny amount of people CANNOT cause all the problems that all of this political BS assumes! Lastly, I still remain perplexed why an American cannot compete with illegals for some of the worst jobs in society? I think Americans believe if they force out illegals, that they can get the jobs, but they'll never perform at the same levels, and they will demand much higher pay. People who believe this are stupid...
     
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